
Glass " X) 4 3 
Book _li. 



65th Congress / (Document 

Isf Session \ biiWAlii -^ ^^^ ^^ 



BRITISH LABOR'S WAR MESSAGE 
TO AMERICAN LABOR 



ADDRESSES 

AND 

DISCUSSIONS AT A MEETING OF THE COMMITTEE 

ON LABOR OF THE COUNCIL OF NATIONAL DEFENSE 

HELD IN WASHINGTON, D. C. 

ON MAY 15, 1917 




PRESENTED BY MR. FLETCHER 
June 30, 1917.— Referred to the Committee on Printing 



WASHINGTON 

GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 

1917 



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yl^i 



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SENATE RESOLUTION NO. 128. 

Reported by Senator Fletcher. 



In the Senate of tpie United States, ^ 

/September 11, 19lT. 
Resolved, That the manuscript submitted by the Senator from 
Florida (Mr. Fletcher) on June 30, 1917, entitled " British Labor's 
War Message to American Labor," consisting of addresses and dis- 
cussions at a meeting of the committee on labor of the Council of 
National Defense, Washington, D. C, May 15, 1917, be printed as 
a Senate document. 
Attest : 

James M. Baker, jSecretary. 
2 



0. of D, 
SEP 28 1917 






^ 



COUNCIL OF NATIONAL DEFENSE, 
ADVISOkY COMMISSION. 

COMMITTEE ON LABOR. 



BRITISH LABOR'S WAR MESSAGE TO 
AMERICAN LABOR. 



Addresses and Discussions at Public Meeting of the Committee 
on Labor, in Washington, D. C, Maj^ 15, 1917. 

In conference with the labor representatives sent by 

the British and Canadian Goyernments at the request 

of the Chairman of the Committee on Labor. 

Right Hon. C. W. Bowerman, Privy Councilor and Member of British House of 
Commons, Secretary of British Trades Union Congress Parliamentary 
Committee. 

Right Hon. James H. Thomas, Privy Councilor and Member of Parliament, 
General Secretary National Union of Railway Men. 

Joseph Davies, Member of the Secretariat of the Prime Minister. 

H. W. Garrod, Representing Labor, Department of Ministry of Munitions. 

G. D. Robertson, Vice President National Association of Railway Telegraphers. 

J. C. Waters, President Trades and Labor Council of Canada. 



INTRODUCTION. 



Within a few days after the organization of the committee on 
labor of the advisory commission, Council of National Defense, the 
chairman of the committee, Samuel Gompers, sent the following 
cablegrams to Premier Lloyd-George, of Great Britain, and Premier 
Ribot, of France: 

Washington, D. C, April 12, 1!)17. 
Premier I^loyd George, 

London : 

As president American Federation of Labor, President Wilson appointed 
me member advisory commission, Conncil of National Defense. Special work 
my committee is conservation and welfare of workers and for effective indus- 
trial service. Cabled dispatch to-day states commission from the British and 
French Governments will come to United States for conference. We need here 
the additional advice of representatives of England's workers, and respectfully 
urge that Appleton and Bowerman be sent here as part of British commission. 
Have cabled Premier Ribot, of France, to like effect for French representatives. 

Samuel Gompers. 



Washington, D. C, April 12, 1917. 
Premier Ribot, 

Paris : 
As president American Federation of Labor, President Wilson aitpointed 
me member advisory commission. Council of National Defense. Special work 
my connnittee is conservation and welfare of workers and for effective indus- 
trial service. Cabled dispatch to-day states commission from the British and 
French Governments will come to United States for conference. We need here 
the additional advise of representatives of France's workers, and respectfully 
urge that .Touhaux and Keufer be sent here as part of French commission. 
Have cabled Premier George, of England, to like effect for English labor 
representatives. 

Samuel Gompers. 

The following replv was received from Mr. Llovd-George, dated 
Api'il 13 : '^ 

Samuel Gompers, 

Washington: 
Delighted to comply with your request. Two labor leaders and representa- 
tives of welfare department of ministry of munitions will leave for America 
as soon as possible. 

Lloyd George. 

Mr. Gompers then sent a second cablegram to Premier Eibot, as 

follows : 

Washington, D. C, April 13, 1!)17. 

Premier Ribot, 

Paris: 
Premier Lloyd George cabled me to-day his cordial acceptance my suggestion 
to send two representatives of labor from England to United States to i-onsult 
with my connnittee. May I not urge you to comply with my request so that 
seneral cooperation may be had. 

Samuel Gompers. 



6 BRITISH LABOR S WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

In reply to this the following letter was received from the French 

ambassador to the United States : 

Washington, Aj)rU 16, 1917. 

Dear Mr. Gompees : My Government informs me that you kindly applied to 
them asking that French and English delegates be sent to the United States in 
view of a conference with the representatives of American laborers. 

I am instructed to inform you that the best and most appropriate plan would 
be for you to cable directly to Mr. Jouhaux, asking him to send two delegates 
of French workmen who would come aud take part in the intended conference. 
Believe me, with best regards, 

Sincerely, yours, Jusseeand. 

In accordance with the suggestion in this communication Mr. 
■ Gompers cabled to Mr. Jouhaux and Mr. Keufer, Paris, on April 26, 
as follows : 

The working people of the United States of America in this crucial time 
require the advice and the cooperation of all and particularly the representa- 
tives of Jabor who have had the valuable experience of labor under the war 
conditions. At my request Bowerman and Thomas, of England, are coming to 
America under authority of British Government, and I urgently ask you and 
August Keufer to also come here at earliest possible time. I feel confident 
Government of France approves my request. We need you both. 

Samuel Gompees. 
To this Mr. Jouhaux replied : 

Paeis, May 16, 1917. 
American Federation of Labor, 

Washington: 
Preseiit circumstances do not permit us to be able to carry out the delegation 
that you ha^e asked of us. We thank you for your invitfition. as to which you 
will understand the reasons which are the motive of our decision. In assuring 
you of our complete union, accept for the American working people our fraternal 
greeting. 

Jouhaux. 

Mr. Gompers cabled on April 16, to the President of Cuba as 
follows : 

Washington, D. C, April 16, 1917. 
President Menocal, 

Havana, Culm: 

As president American Federation of Labor, President Wilson ai)iioiuted 
me member advisory commission. Council of National Defense. The council 
appointed me chairman committee on labor, conservation, and welfare of 
workers. When I learned that the French and British Governments were to 
send commissions to United States for conference I cabled Premier Lloyd- 
George, of England, and Premier Ribot. of France, to each send two repre- 
sentatives of labor unions to confer with my committee and give us the benefit 
of their experience and advice. Lloyd-George cabled he will send two labor 
leaders and tv\'o women conversant with welfare work to confer with my labor 
committee. Expect similar compliance from Premier Ribot. Inasmuch as 
you will appoint Cuban commission to come to Washington, may I prevail upon 
you to also send two representative members of Cuban labor unions for con- 
ference with us? 

Samuel Gompees. 

President Menocal replied on April 18 : 

Samuel Gompees, 

Washington : 
I shall take up the matter to which you refer in your cablegram with dif- 
ferent labor leaders, so that proper representation of labor unions be designated 
to go to Washington at the same time with Cuban commission. 

Maeio G. Menocal. 

On May 7 Mr. Gompers telegraphed a similar request to Sir George 
Foster, Premier of Canada, and received his favorable reply, dated 
May 9. These telegrams were as follows : 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 7 

„. ^ X-, Washington, D. C, Mail 7 1917 

Sir George Foster, v^ , ^««y <, ji/j<. 

Premier of Canada, Oitaiva, Canada: 
Complying with my cable request, Premier Lloyd-George, of Great Britain 
sent delegation of British workmen to United States and they are now at 
Washington, the purpose being to give American labor the benefit of British 
experience and for us to avoid mistakes made in earlier part of present war 
Have made similar request of Premier Ribot, of France, and am advised that 
representatives of labor of France will come here for same purpose. I have had 
conference with Ambassador Sir Spring Rice with th.-it some object in view- 
that is, to have two representative trn de-unionists from Cannda come here for 
conference and advice— and I now respectfully and urgentlv request thnt such 
labor representatives be sent here as soon as possible. Mav I suggest confer- 
ence with P. M. Draper, drawer 515, Ottawa, Canada, regarding selection of 
representative labor men? A telegraphic reply will be greatly appreciated. 

Samuel Gompers. 

Ottawa, May 9, 1917. 
Mr. Samuel Gompers,* 

Washington, D. C: 
Your wire received. Labor representatives will be sent immediately. Par- 
ticulars later. G. E. Foster. 

In accordance with the cablegram from Premier Lloyd-George, 
the British Government sent to this country four representatives of 
labor, as follows : 

Right Hon. C. W. Bowerman, privy councilor and member of 
British House of Commons, secretary of British Trades Union Con- 
gress parliamentary committee. 

Hon. James H. Thomas, member of Parliament, general secretary 
National Union of Railwaymon, Great Britain and Ireland. 

Joseph Davies, member of the secretariat of the prime minister. 

H. W. Garrod, representing labor, department of ministry of 
munitions. 

The Government of Canada sent two representatives of labor to 
confer with the committee on labor in conjunction with the British 
delegation. The representatives from Canada were : 

G. D. Robertson, vice president National Association of Railway 
Telegraphers. 

J. C. Waters, president Trades and Labor Council of Canada. 

The British delegates arrived in Washington on Saturday, May 
5, and were met by a reception committee of the committee on labor. 
During their stay in Washington the gentlemen composing this com- 
mission, and the Canadian representatives who joined them in Wash- 
ington a few days later, were in frequent conferences with representa- 
tive trade-unionists as well as all those especially interested in labor 
war problems. During these interviews the}^ imparted information 
of the highest value relative to the British experience in the treat- 
ment of problems of industrial mobilization and employment of labor 
which have arisen during the war period. 

During the week of May 21-26 the four British delegates visited 
and addressed meetings of workingmen, employers, and leading rep- 
resentatives of commercial, financial, educational, and civic interests 
in Pittsburgh, Chicago, Cleveland. Albany, Schenectady, Boston, 
and New York. Arrangements for this tour were made by Mr. 
Ralph M. Easley, assistant to the chairman of the committee on 
labor, as chairman of the executive connnittee. Judge Maurice 
Sheldon Amos, of the Balfour ctmmiission. and Mr. Easley, accom- 
panied the labor commission in Chicago and Cleveland. 



8 BEITISH labor's WAE MESSAGE TO AMEBIC AN LABOB. 

In Chicago on May 22 the English delegates addressed a joint 
meeting of business men and labor representatives at a luncheon at 
the Union League Clnb and in the afternoon made an inspection of 
the stockyards. In the evening they addressed a large mass meeting 
under the auspices of the Chicago Federation of Labor. 

On May 23 they were the guests at a luncheon in Cleveland ar- 
ranged by former Ambassador to France Myron T. Herrick and local 
representatives of organized labor, including the Brotherhoods of 
Eailway Trainmen, of Locomotive Engineers, and of Locomotive 
Firemen and Enginemen. This meeting was attended by about 200, 
and in the evening the British representatives addressed an enthusi- 
astic audience of more than 1,000 at the Engineers' Auditorium. 

T\^iile in Albany on May 24 the British representatives were re- 
ceived by a large delegation of trade-union members and railway 
brotherhood officials and made an inspection of the New York Cen- 
tral Eailroad shops at West Albany. At Schenectady inspection was 
made of the plants of the General Electric Co. and the American 
Locomotive Co. At noon a very large outdoor meeting was ad- 
dressed at the General Electric plant, attended by employees of the 
company and by the local trade-union boards. 

On May 25, in Boston, the British delegates addressed a general 
meeting. The audience on this occasion numbered about 2,000. 

On May 26 the British delegates and Judge Amos were guests of 
the National Civic Federation, Metropolitan Life Building, New 
York City. This meeting was attended by about 100 representative 
labor men, 60 of the largest employers of labor in the country, and 50 
women active in the labor movement and in welfare work. Mr. 
August Belmont presided, and addresses were made by the members 
of the English commission and by the chairman of the committee 
on labor. The final addresses of Messrs, Thomas, Bowerman, Da vies, 
and Garrod before their return to England were delivered the same 
evening at the De Witt Clinton High School, in New York. 

The occasion of largest significance and public interest during the 
visit of the British labor representatives was the general meeting of 
the committee on labor, held on May 15 in Washington. This meet- 
ing was called for the express purpose of hearing from the visiting 
delegates and eliciting detailed information by open discussion and 
questions relative to the industrial problems Great Britain has been 
called upon to face by reason of the war and the methods that have 
been employed for their adjustment. There was an attendance at 
this meeting of about 200 members and guests, notably representative 
of all phases of our industrial and civic life. The addresses and 
discussion proved of extraordinary practical value, both from the 
standpoint of industrial justice and of the highest patriotism. Dur- 
ing the afternoon the committee and its guests Avere received at the 
White House by President Wilson, who expressed his personal in- 
terest in the work of the committee, his desire to cooperate in fur- 
therance of its objects, and his sympathy with its declared purpose of 
maintaining established industrial and legislative standards of labor 
conditions. 

In the following pages appears a full report of the proceedings of 
May 15, including a list of the committee members and guests present 
at the meeting. 



INDEX OF SPEAKERS. 



Page. 

X. P. Alifas 92 

John R. Alpine 69 

Judge M. S. Amos 32 

r. R. Atherton 53 

r. L. Baine 55 

W. T. Barbour 71 

Gertrude Beeks 50 

A. F. Benxis 76 

Chas. W. Bowerman 21 

P. J. Bradv 56, 87 

W. M. Clark 72 

Sara A. ('onboy 71 

U. D'Alessandro 88 

Joseph Davies 61 

James Duncan 50 

Dr. Lee K. Frankel 52 

H . W. Garrod 28 

John Golden 89 

Samuel Gompers 11, 37 

Abraham Greenstein 51 

Daniel Guggenheim 65 

G. H. Halberstadt 73 

Mvron T. Herrick 60 

Fred Hewitt 87 

Colgate Hoyt 67 

Walter E. Kruesi 

Julia Lathrop 75 

Collis Lovely 79 

Emerson McjVIillan 65 

H. B F. Macfarland 58, 68 

V. Everit Macy 57 

Theodore Marburg 66 

Dr. Royal Meeker 54, 87 

C. Edwin Michael 56 

James O 'Connell 56 

John H. Patterson 70 

George W. Perkins ^5 

Jeannette Rankin '76 

G. D. Robertson 31, 48, 49 

John D. Rockefeller, jr 63 

Dr. Albert Shaw °^ 

Chas. B. Stillmau °l 

N.I.Stone 45 

James Thomas ' _o 

Isaac M, Ullman • ' ^ 

D. Everit Waide ^] 

Lillian D. Wald «* 

J. C. Waters t, 

A. O. Wharton f: 

Dr. Talcott Williams ^' 

President Wilson "^"^ 

9 



PUBLIC MEETING OF THE COMMITTEE ON LABOR, ADVISORY COMMIS- 
SION, COUNCIL OF NATIONAL DEFENSE, MAY 15, 1917. 



The committee met at 10 a. m. in the council room of the American 
Federation of Labor Building, Washington, D. C. 

The Chairman. Permit me to welcome you to this meeting this 
morning and to express the hope that, as the result of our deliber- 
ations, there may come a more united and whole-souled effort to be 
helpful to our country, to the countries which are noAv our allies in 
the great struggle in which they have been engaged for more than 
two and one-half years, and of one which we are just entering, and to 
express the hope, the fervent hope, that the struggle may be short- 
ened by our entrance into it, and that the people of Eussia, with their 
new-found freedom, may have themselves well in hand under their 
own control and within their own restraint for their own good and 
for the good of the people of all countries in the world. Let us hope 
to do our share, that the cause in which we have enlisted shall tri- 
umph, tne cause of freedom, of justice, of democracy, of humanity, 
for, in this great struggle there will be determined, perhaps for a cen- 
tury or more, which scheme of government shall prevail, whether it 
shall be democracy, by which the people may have a determining 
voice as to the method of their government and of their everyday 
lives, whether it shall be government where free thought and free 
expression may find their lodgment, and out of them come the best 
in the interest of the people of their respective countries and as a 
whole making for a real federation of the nations of the earth, or 
whether, on the other hand, there shall be entrenched not only in the 
countries where it now exists a species of despotism and autocracy 
but that the system of autocracy and despotism shall prevail and be 
forced upon tlie peoples of the world. That is the choice. That nuist 
be the determining factor in our minds to guide us on to dare and to 
do for the establishment of the principles for which man has been 
struggling for, lo, these many centuries, of which poets have sung and 
philosophers have dreamed and which the men and women of our 
time must achieve. 

The Council of National Defense, created by law. and its advisory 
commission, determined that the council should be divided into seven 
parts, each to perform a separate function. A civilian was made 
chairman of each committee. I was chosen as chairinan of th;> com- 
mittee on labor for the conservation and the welfare of workers, 
and as chairman I have asked you, ladies and gentlemen, and several 
others who have not yet reported their attendance here, and some who 
were required by their duties to appear before committees of Con- 
gress this morniiig, to come here, so, without Iniowing exactly at this 
time the number of ladies and gentlemen in attendance here, I think 

11 



12 BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

I am justified in making the estimate that there are about 160. A 
register will be provided where you will be asked to inscribe your 
name as being in attendance and what institution or organization you 
represent. We desire to have a permanent record of those in attend- 
ance and their occupation. 

Before reporting further as to the work, I ought to say that, be- 
lieving it to be the desire of the ladies and gentlemen in attendance 
Iiere this morning to be presented to and meet the President of the 
United States, I addressed a letter to him asking for that privilege, 
and I have a letter before me stating the time that he will be glad to 
see me and the members of my committee at 2.30 o'clock this after- 
noon. We shall arrange our business in order that we may keep that 
engagement. 

The 'committee on labor has been divided into eight principal com- 
mittees and several divisional committees, each dealing with an im- 
portant branch of the subject for which this committee is created. 
The fact is, friends, that during a state of war in any country, the 
people at the outset, in the first stages of war, usually are struck with 
what miglit be termed as hysteria ; it is not only enthusiasm, it it not 
only patriotism, but the generating of the two produces a mental state 
of willingness to depart from any undertaking or achievement in 
order, as thej^ imagine, to bring about a speedy conclusion of the war. 
AVhile it is true and may be necessary that for a specific limited 
period of time all may be required to make heroic efforts and many 
sacrifices, the whole history of the world has shown that in the long- 
run this form of hysteria is detrimental not only to the cause at issue 
but also to the protection and the welfare of the great masses of the 
people. 

The committees are composed of men and of women who have 
given evidence of their desire to serve not only during the war, but 
before the. war. The chairmen have been requested to submit to me 
a, number of names of men and of women whom they desire to have 
appointed upon their respective committees. Inasmuch as the chair- 
man of the committee on labor is responsible to the Council of Na- 
tional Defense, it is necessary that the chairman appoint these com- 
mittees; that is, to have the final determination as to who should 
or should not go on the committees. Up to this time I am very glad 
to say that no recommendation has been made to me that I have not 
felt fully grateful for the suggestions, and the people recommended 
were appointed by me. 

At the meeting of April 2, the first meeting of our general mem- 
bership of this committee, an executive committee was created con- 
sisting of Samuel Gompers (chairman), V. Everit Macy, James 
Lord. Elisha Lee, Warren S. Stone, C. E. Michael, Frank Morrison, 
Lee K. Frankel, James O'Connell, Louis B. Schram. After that 
meeting I asked Mr. Ealph M. Easley to act as assistant to the 
chairman of the committee on labor and he kindly consented and has 
acted in that capacity since. Mr. James W. Sullivan was appointed 
by me as director of the affairs of the office of the committee on labor 
of the advisory commission of the Council of National Defense. To 
Miss Gertrude Beeks I took the pleasure of tendering, and she ac- 
cepted, the secretaryship to the committee. Mr. Stone was unable to 
attend more than one meeting of the executive committee and asked 



BRITISH LABOR S WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 13 

that Mr. H. E. Wills act for him during any of the time Mlien his 
absence would be enforced. 

Col. Pope, president of the National Association of Manufacturers, 
recommended Mr. Parker Nevin, and I appointed him, but later I 
was asked that Mr. C. E. Michael be substituted for Mr. Nevin. That 
was acquiesced in, and Mr. Nevin has attended the meetings ratlier 
as an advisory member than as a member with a full A^ote. 

Immediately upon the adjournment, about midnight, of our gen- 
eral committee on April 2, the executive committee went into session 
and organized, and we have had two days' session within a week 
and usually one day in the week. Each of these sessions was an all- 
day session. There has been wonderful progress, attention, work, 
and faithful service rendered by the executive committee, and you 
and I should feel proud and greatly appreciative of the talent, of 
the time, of the service, of the achievement of that executive com- 
mittee. I must express my admiration as well as appreciation for tlie 
splendid work done. 

Upon learning that a mission was to come from the Governments 
of Great Britain and France to confer with the representatives of the 
Government of the United States, I immediately placed myself in 
cable communication with that great leader in this, our great cause, 
Lloyd-George [applause], and to that splendid representative of 
France, the premier [applause], and I asked that both Governments 
send to the United States, as representative of their Governments, 
labor men who were qualified ancl who understood the trials and the 
difficulties which the people of their Governments had to face, so that 
they might come here and give us the benefit of their experience and 
advice. Within 12 hours I received a reply from Lloyd-George that 
he Avas glad to receive my message and would gladly and promptly 
send over representatives of labor. I haA^e had a little more difficulty 
with getting a direct affirmatiA^e declaration from the premier of 
France. 

When-I learned that the GoA^ernor General of Canada Avas going to 
send a commission to meet with the representatives of the T'^nited 
States and of the Governments of England and France. I telegraphed 
to the acting premier and asked him to send two representatiA'es of 
labor to meet Avith us and confer Avith us, and he prom]it]y complied 
Avith my request. I got into cable communication Avith President 
Menocai, of the Republic of Cuba, asking for representatives of that 
Government to meet and confer Avith us here. I received an affirma- 
tive reply, but thus far I have not seen the representatives. 

I am very proud and pleased, as I knoAv you Avill be and are, to 
know that the representatives of the British Government rei^resent- 
ing labor, and representatives of the Canadian GoA'ernment repre- 
senting labor, are here with us, and it was probably one of the prime 
causes that they are here and would be here which prom]:)te(l me to 
ask you to come here to this second general meeting of the conmiittee 
on labor, so that you may hear direct what they have to say and just 
let yourselves loose and throAv the throttle Avide open and ask these 
men any question affecting the rights, interest, and the Avelfare of 
the Avar, and you will find a ready response from each and every one 
of them. [Applause.] They have already given an account of them- 
selves, and in such manner as to have won the admiration and the 
confidence and the applause of the representatives of the Government 



14 BRITISH LABOR S WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

of the United States. It has been my pleasure to have listened to 
them in each instance. There has not been one time but what there 
was some valuable piece of information given and some good sugges- 
tion advanced. 

There is a matter to which I desire to refer, and of an important 
character, but I do not want to break whatever continuity there has 
been in what I have endeavored to express, and I now take pleasure 
in presenting to you the president of the greatest trade-union — I 
believe I am justified in saying — of the whole world, a railroad loco- 
motive engineer by trade, a member of Parliament, and I venture 
not to express my own judgment as to his qualifications, but present 
the matter to you because you may then think that I have not done 
the right thing in presenting his qualifications as they should properly 
be presented. I prefer to leave them to your own judgment after he 
has concluded. 

I present to you Mr. James Thomas, M. P. [Applause.] 

Mr. James Thomas. Mr. President and friends, were it not for 
the fact that it usually .falls to my lot to introduce other speakers, 
T should be somewhat embarrassed by the' compliment that ,you have 
already paid me. But it is indeed a pleasure, as well as a privilege, 
that my colleagues and myself are here, first, at the invitation of 
Mr. Gompers and, secondly, by request of our own Government. The 
.primary object of our visit is not to instruct you how to do your 
work, not to tell 3^ou that we could do it much better, but rather, 
having gone through the experience of two and one-half years of 
war with all its misery and suffering, we may be able to say to you 
something of our mistakes whereby you ma}^ profit by those mistakes 
and the cause of the allies will therefore be strengthened as a result. 

The labor movement of Great Britain is clefinitelj^ antiwar. I do 
not believe there is in the whole world a labor movement so opposed 
to war in all its forms as the British labor movement. I do not 
disguise the fact that previous to the war I was a peace man. I 
looked upon war as hell let loose ; I looked upon war as appealing to 
the basest and worst in mankind, and I hoped for the time, worked 
and prayed for the time, when the workers of the world would have 
made war impossible. But holding those beliefs and recognizing, 
as I haA^e said before, the evils of war we were faced as a nation, 
and we were faced as a movement with something that was even 
worse than war, and it was national dishonor. In the trade-union 
movement we believe in collective bargaining. We believe that the 
interest of the farm, of citizenship, should demand mutual respect 
and confidence between all sections of the people, and as a trade-union 
leader, whenever I make an agreement on behalf of the men, I 
always look upon it as a duty to myself and my organization that I 
shall insist upon every employer observing any agreement that we 
make. But in insisting upon that I also recognize that there can 
not be one standard of honor demanded by us from the other side 
without we are prepared to practice the same standard of honor 
ourselves. [Applause.] 

In other words, just as I believe it is a paramount duty on my 
part to insist upon an employer observing an agreement, so I insist 
that it is the duty of the men I represent to be loyal and observe 
any agreement I make on their behalf. That I put to you as the 
basic principle of collective bargaining. 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 15 

Now, if that standard of honor is necessary in the ordinary affairs 
of life, if that standard of honor is essential as between employer 
and employee, I put it to you how much more important, how much 
more vital is it that at least that standard of honor should be 
observed between the nations of the world. [Applause.] Therefore 
when we as a Nation have committed ourselves by treaty obligations 
to the protection of gallant little Belgium we as a labor movement 
were brought face to face with this fact, that here is a discharging 
of the obligation that she is committed to, here is a nation prepared 
to fulfill all the promises she has made, and what can we as a trade- 
union movement, believing in that principle, do other than to say to 
the Nation. " We will not only agree with you, but we will support 
you in your action." [Applause.] Because, friends, I put that 
clearly as against the assumption of those that one is to adopt the 
attitude of your country, right or wrong. Kings and nobles may 
make a mistake in political policy. Kings and nations may make 
mistakes in their forms of government, but neither kings nor govern- 
ments have the right to involve a nation in a war unless it is a war 
that is to the advantage and the well being of the people as a whole. 
[Applause.] 

In the South African War I had my own house wrecked. I was 
mobbed and hounded from pillar to post because I felt a mistake had 
been made by our people, and feeling that a mistake had been made 
I had the courage of my convictions to say so and do all I could to 
prevent it. Therefore 1 regard that as rather showing that we did 
not approach this question in any jingo spirit, but we rather ap- 
proached it from the standpoint of endeavoring to ascertain whether 
our country, in taking this step, was justified; and if justified, what 
was our position? Therefore the labor movement as a whole, having 
decided to stand by the Government, we were immediately brought 
up against the proposition of whether our support meant merely 
lip service or really a genuine sacrifice. The mere making of speeches 
is a detail ; the mere support of a government by a public declaration 
is valueless to that government unless it carries with it some prac- 
tical sacrifice and a recommendation that you are prepared to do 
something to back your opinion. Therefore the British trade-union 
movement having first decided to support the war immediately ap- 
plied itself to the ways and means by which it could best do it, and 
the first thing it did was to declare there should exist during the 
period of the war an industrial truce. That is to say, that with the 
war raging as it was, it would be madness and folly to have side 
by side with that war an industrial war in our own country, and Ave 
entered into an agreement with the employers whereby they, on the 
one hand, agreed that they would not interfere with or reduce the 
conditions prevalent at the time, in return for which we, on the other 
hand, agreed that we would not attempt to set up any new standard 
of conditions, and that truce was practically agreed to by the whole 
of the organized workers of Great Britain. 

But we very soon found out — what, after all, is not peculiar to our 
country, but what is peculiar to all countries— that there were people 
who were prepared to take advantage of abnormal circumstances 
created by the war. Our navy — and here let me say that the TTnited 
States itself owes a debt of gratitude to the gallantry of the British 
Navy — ^has succeeded by courage and work, hard and arduous, of 



16 BEITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAIs^ LABOR. 

keeping the sea, but we found that there were people prepared to take 
advantage of the navy's great work. We found our food prices soar- 
ing very, very high, indeed. We found within the first few months of 
the war an increase of something lil^e 30 per cent in the cost of living. 
At this moment the Government returns show that the increase is 94 
per cent above that of prewar. 

Now, we, as a labor people, would not have complained if this sac- 
rifice was justified by the circumstances created by the war, because, 
friends, do not make the mistake of assuming that you can enter 
into this war simply as a picnic. God knows you will have to make 
many, many sacrifices if you are going to do useful service. There- 
fore, we could not expect things to go on as normal, but we did resent 
and we did complain, and we have felt that, side by side with this 
increased cost of living, there could be no justification for balance 
sheets of firms engaged on war work alone showing an increase of 
200 per cent and 300 per cent above prewar. We could not reconcile 
the fact that the soldier's wife, with our low separation allowance, 
was struggling along and paying 2 cents and 3 cents more for a few 
pounds of bread, with firms like Spillers & Bakers declaring a divi- 
dend of over 200 per cent more than they did the year before. We 
felt that the war was so important that if sacrifices were to be made, 
there must be sacrifices on the part of all and not on the part of a 
few. [Applause.] 

The result was that we immediately used our machinery and our 
power and our influence to draw public attention and the Govern- 
ment's attention for the control of these things. We asked the Gov- 
ernment to see that whilst men were called upon to give their, life, 
it was not too much to expect other people to give up some of the 
luxuries that they were enjoying. Therefore, I am giving this illus- 
tration to show that consistent with our desire to make sacrifices our- 
self we naturally and jealously safeguarded the interest of our own 
people as well as the community by insisting that the sacrifice should 
not be a one-sided one, but should be made by all classes of the 
people. 

The next difficulty with which we were faced was this: In the- first 
18 months of the war over 4,000,000 of our men volunteered for the 
front — not conscripted, nor compelled— but they left the workshop, 
the factory, the mine, the desk, business, and leisure, and at the call 
of duty responded. The spirit of those men was a magnificent spirit. 
The spirit of those men showed the highest possible form qf patriot- 
ism; but with 4,000,000 men taken out of industry it was clearly 
evident that some change had to be made, with the result that the 
Government called into conference the trade-union leaders and execu- 
tives of every trade and industry, and the}^ said to them, " We are 
now faced with this problem, that women must go into industries in 
which previouslv they have been excluded. Women must go and 
bear some portion of this burden, and we want you, as a labor and 
trade-union movement, not only to agree to these changes but to 
render all the assistence you can to the women when they come in." 
We said that so far as we are concerned we first wished to be satis- 
fied that there were no men out of work, because, clearly, friends, it 
Avould be absurd to agree to bring women into occupations in which' 
they were not previously engaged and at the same time have men 
out of work, and by that means have efficiency wasted. We were 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 17 

satisfied that it was essential to bring women into industry, but in 
agreeing to that we first made a condition that wherever a woman was 
engaged in taking the phice of a man, by a written agreement it was 
laid down that her presence would not prejudice or interfere with the 
right of a man to take his place when he came back from the fighting 
line. We felt that was an essential condition and one fair to our men 
who had so gallantly volunteered. 

Secondly, we felt it was a duty to those who had volunteered that 
they should not find, when they came back, that women's labor had 
reduced the standard of their work, and it was agreed that wherever 
women were employed doing the same work as men they should be 
paid the same rate regardless of any sex, with the result that there is 
at this moment something like one million and a quarter women who 
were never previously engaged in industrial occupations performing 
all kinds of manual work, and doing it as well, and at the same time 
the positions of the men are safeguarded, the conditions of the 
women are fair and equitable, and they have the greatest consolation 
of knowing that they are making a magnificent contribution to the 
great war that is now taking place. 

But, sir, other difficulties arose. For instance, it was very soon 
discovered that our men were not having a good chance; they were 
not having a fair chance. We Britishers never complain about being 
beaten in a fair fight. I do not think you Americans would com- 
plain about being beaten in a fair fight; but you, with us, I believe, 
Avould complain if you were beaten and never had a fair chance. We 
found that our men were facing guns and high explosives at the front, 
with all the hell and the hammering that they were getting and never 
had a chance to get back. For months and months our young gal- 
lant men were like rats in a trap. They could not reply by guns or 
munitions, thousands of them being mowed down daily by all manner 
of hellish devices being used against them, and they had no chance. 

I might say I was always against reprisals, because I do not think 
you can compete with Germany for barbarism. Therefore any form 
of reprisal would simply make it worse. But I happened to be at 
the battle of Hill 60, where the first gas was used, and I saw after a 
two days' battle not hundreds, but thousands, of our men — some I 
knew — brought out and laid on the ground with oxygen being 
pumped into them. The effect of the gas Avas that it formed a sort of 
lava around the lungs and strangled them. Men I spoke to who knew 
they were going to die within a few hours, hundreds of them who 
knew that there was no possible opportunity, some of my own fellow 
countrymen, some of my own fellow railroad men, I spoke to. Not 
from one man did I hear a solitary complaint that he was going to 
die, but I had many complaints that they had not had a fair deal. I 
immediately came back to our country, and I said to the prime min- 
ister. " These men must not be allowed to fight with one hand behind 
their backs; they must have a fair deal, or you will break the morale 
of the best-spirited men in the world." [Applause.] 

Those incidents, friends, were all new, and the result was. Avhen we 
found that there was such a shortage of munitions, the Government 
immediately directed its attention to the providing of munitions. 
Some one asked us during some of our conferences here, what was 
the real incentive that caused our men to make so many sacrifices. 

S. Doc. 84, 65-1 2 



18 BKITISH LABOE S WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

The answer is a simple one, because they had their brothers, their 
sons, and their relatives being mutilated daily. The}" Avere getting 
letters from the front, they read of these things, and it brought it 
right home to them that they ought to do everything they could to 
help them. The Government therefore said, '' Our difficulty with 
regard to munitions is this, that if every skilled man in the country 
was to work 24 hours per day there would still be a shortage," be- 
cause not only at this period was the shortage for ourselves, but I do 
not think I am giving you any secret — I believe it will not be for the 
press, and I Avill tell you confidentially — that for the first 12 months 
with the Eussian Army there were two men in the reserve, and as the 
first Eussian soldier was mowed down the other rushed up to pick up 
the rifle or he could not be a belligerent. That was the condition of 
the Eussian Army, with over 2,000,000 reserves, in the first nine 
months. 

. Therefore not only was our difficulty in supplying munitions to 
our own people, but supplying them to the other allies as Avell. The 
Government said, as I have stated, if every skilled man was turned 
onto this job there would still be a shortage. The result was that 
they called labor into conferences, as they did on every stage of all 
proceedings. The Government, from the commencement, in every 
stage called into their conferences organized labor, and they said 
to them, " We w^ant you to agree to have unskilled men and women 
being taught and trained for this work." Our trades-unions agreed, 
but they made this condition, that every privilege that they gave 
up was to be treated as a war privilege; and by a Government 
guaranty all these privileges — all these rules — that were relaxed 
were to be restored immediately the war was over, with the result 
that again there was brought into the manufacture of munitions hun- 
dreds of thousands of men and w^omen previously uns.killed. and 
who were trained in various ways and gave assistance in the manu- 
facture of what was hitherto skilled industry. 

But that was not all. We found that there was a shortage of labor 
in one spot and a surplus in another, as you can quite understand. 
There may be, for instance, a surplus of labor in New York and in 
exactly the same trade there may be a shortage in Washington. 
Therefore the point that we were facing was this: If Washington 
wants a given class of labor, and there is no labor of that kind in 
Washington and there is plenty of that kind of labor in New York, 
how shall we get over the difficulty by transferring and being able 
to use that labor at New York in Washington? There was set up 
what was called an enrollment for munition volunteers; that is to 
say, that men and women— men especially — Avere asked to enroll as 
munition volunteers, and they having enrolled agreed to allow the 
Government to send them to any place or factory whereA'er their 
labor was required ; and they, on the other hand, had agreed to ac- 
cept the position, Avherever it was. But you can quite conceive of 
this difficulty : Supposing the Avages in New York Avere higher than 
the Avages in Washington. It Avould be hardly fair to ask the 
workers to come from NeAv York and Avork in Washington at their 
own trade at a less rate than they could get in NeAv York. There- 
fore by agreement it Avas arranged that whichever place was the 
highest the man going to a particular district Avould carry Avith him 
the highest rate ; that is to sav. if the rate at New York was hisrher 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAX LABOR. 19 

than the rate at Washington, he woukl make the Xew York rate in 
Washington. If, on the other hand. Washington was the highest 
and the man came from New York, he would i-eceive the AA'ashington 
rate if it happened to be higher than the other. 

But in addition there was naturally a domestic difficulty which 
would arise, namely, that the man would be leaving his family in 
New Y'ork. The GoAernment undertook to pay a subsistence allow- 
ance of IT shillings and 6 pence per week to evei-y man who had de- 
pendents, so that the Avages that he earned in the ueAv place, as it 
were, Avould practically go to the maintenance of his family, and the 
subsistence allowance practically kept him in the particidar town 
where he Avas. By that means many thousands of volunteers Avere 
«»nrolled, and that difficulty Avas gotten OAcr. 

In addition, of course, the railroads were empoAA^ered to issue free 
passes to them so that either once a fortnight or once a month, as 
the case might be, they were giA-en free traveling alloAvance to their 
homes. Incidentally I may say that the railroads are under State 
control. That Avas brought about for this reason, that there are 51 
railroad companies in Great Britain. When Avar broke out. I may 
privately say, we were committed to France for the conveyance of 
an expeditionary force of 160,000. The result Avas that when war 
broke out the 160,000 men, with all equipment of Avar, had to be 
immediately transferred to the other side of the channel. Noav. 
clearly, if the railroad companies issue a ticket to every soldier, and 
transportation for CAery horse, every gun, and so on, there would 
be as many men and women engaged in the checking of Avhat they 
were carrying as there would be in the carrying of them. In addi- 
tion to that, between the 51 companies — they Avere probably coming 
from Scotland to Southampton— they Avould run over five different 
railroads and therefore a regular clearing house Avould be engaged on 
those five raihvays in ascertaining Avhat was the exact proportion 
due to each particular company, with the result that there would 
be not only confusion and delay, but an obvious Avaste of labor, Avhich 
was vital at that stage. Therefore, the Government immediately 
took over the railroads and the basis upon which they took them over 
was this: They said to them, "We Avill not quibble about Avhat you 
are going to carry or what you Avill not, but Avhatever your profits 
were in 1914 we 'will guarantee you those same profits during the 
period of -the war." The result Avas that some of the companies, to 
my OAvn personal knoAvledge, had to pay back to the treasury — not 
receive from them — many hundreds of thousands of pounds, because 
they had carried more traffic than they did in 1911; therefore, by the 
Government deal the Government had benefited thereby. 

Now, that is the system under which the railroads are run imder 
the general managers with the president of the board of trade as the 
chairman of the'executiA^e committee. That again, you Avill see, 
enables these free passes to be given Avith practically no expense to 
the Government because it makes no difference so far as then- 
revenue is concerned. 

But the most important point, so far as the Avorkers are con- 
cerned, was the giving up of Avhat Avas called the poAver to strike. 
Two things were discovered: First, that employers Avere offering men 
more money to come to them on certain jobs than they Avere getting 
on Government Avork ; that is to say, an employer wanting a boiler- 



20 BRITISH LABOR S WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

maker or a machinist Avould say, " I will give you 5 shillings per 
week more to come to me than you are getting on that work." 
Although the man there msij be making guns, this other man was 
doing private work, and you can quite conceive how this policy was 
disastrous for those men to be taken from essential work and put on 
nonessential work so far as the war was concerned. The Government 
therefore introduced, by agreement with the trades unions, the muni- 
tions act, and that act prevented a man leaving his employment to go 
to another emploj^er, but it also did this, that if the employer in the 
district was not paying the trades-unions' standard — whatever it 
was — that man could not be refused a leaving certificate, with a 
result that by the act it automatically brought up bad employers 
absolutely to the same level, because it assured the district rate apply- 
ing to all. On the other hand, it took the power to strike away from 
ihe men, but it gave this advantage, that while it took the power to 
strike away it did set up machinery for the creation of the arbitration 
courts Avhereby men's grievances were examined. 

These are only a few of the many things, and subsequent speakers 
will deal with others. They are only a few of the things we have 
done. We have done them because we believe that the cause to which 
your countrj^, now with ours, is committed is of so paramount im- 
portance not only to democracy, not only to labor, but to the future 
of the world, that no sacrifice ought to be too great to insure victory 
for the allied cause. [Applause.] 

I am not going to disguise the fact that there are men in all coun- 
tries who are prepared to take advantage for their own personal 
aims; they are not limited to any one class; they are not limited to 
workers any more than they are limited to employers. There are 
vices and virtues in all kinds of people, but, friends, when we talk 
about sacrifice, if you could only visit, as some of us have done, the 
battle fields of France and Flanders and see the devastated homes, 
if you in the early stages could have seen the women and their faces 
who had fled from the Germans in the early stages of war and heard 
their tales you would really appreciate what sacrifice really meant. 

I remember on the road to Bethune, going to the cemetery where 
1.500 of our gallant Scotch Highlanders were mowed down in Oc- 
tober, 1914, and I looked at those graves — every one of them indi- 
cated by a small little cross — giving the name of the soldier and the 
regiment, and beyond what was then a cemetery there was standing 
isolated a grave by itself. I went over to that little grave, and it 
there said, " Here lies an unknown British soldier buried the 14th 
of October, 1914," and on that grave was a wreath of wild flowers — 
we call them buttercups and daisies — and I said to the officer who was 
with me, " Who put those flowers on the grave? " He replied, " Mr. 
Thomas, both in France and in Belgium wherever there is an un- 
known soldier's grave the children gather the wild flowers and put 
rhem on the grave." 

That, friends, may be mere sentiment, but it is a beautiful senti- 
ment. It expresses after all the appreciation of a people who have 
suffered. You people, as I have said previously, have not yet realized 
the horrors of the war. Do not make the mistake of assuming, as 
we did, that the war will be over in five minutes. Do not assume 
that the entry of your great people, with all your power, influence, 
and wealth, simply means the ending of the war. I do not believe it 



BRITISH LABOr/s WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 21 

will be anything of the kind. There are many sacrifices to be made. 
Many people will die. but they will die in order that liberty may win.* 

To the employers I would say remember that the protection of this 
great State has enabled you to enmass your wealth with the assistance 
of labor. You have a duty to recognize that in the world war selfish 
interests must be obliterated. 

To the worker I would say in spite of all your struggles and diffi- 
culties remember that there is something higher than mere material 
gain, and if both sides approach the question in that spirit I am 
satisfied that common spirit will find a reflex when the war is over 
and a better standing by all sections of people will be reached. 

I can look to the time when the war will be over, when peace will 
have been won, and the American, the English, the French, the 
Serbian, and the Russian soldier will say, "We fought together in 
defense of our country. We will now fight together to make our 
country worth living in." Yea, I can see the German soldier, who is 
now the enemy, saying, " I fought for the Fatherland ; I fought be- 
cause I was a victim; I had to fight; but your victory and my defeat 
have paved the way to my liberty and my salvation, and the ending 
of this war vvill not only be a victory for the allied cause but a 
triumph for civilization. [Applause.] 

The Chairman. I think it would be best to defer any questions 
being put to these speakers until after all have been heard, for, as a 
matter of fact, some of the speakers may really anticipate the ques- 
tion you have in mind to put. 

I now take pleasure in presenting to you the secretary of the 
British trade-union movement, the Right Hon. Charles W. Bower- 
man, Member of Parliament. [Applause.] 

Mr. BowERMAN. Mr. President, friends, ladies, and gentlemen, 
I think you will readily understand the reason why I gave way to 
my friend and colleague, Mr. Thomas. I have derived as much 
pleasure from his speech as you have, judging from your applause, 
and I want to refer, Mr. President, to these personal facts so far as 
Mr. Thomas is concei;ned, and I do not think he will mind my re- 
ferring to them. No member in the labor party in the House of 
Commons has been more vigorous in the support of the Govern- 
ment throughout all their war measures than has my friend Thomas. 
Within the past four months, had he so chosen, he could have ac- 
cepted a very prominent appointment as a minister of the Crown, 
but he placed his trade-union work first before his political oppor- 
tunities, and he made reply to the prime minister that underthe cir- 
cumstances he must decline to accept that very high position of 
trust. [Applause.] 

My remarks will be very brief, indeed. I want to refer to three or 
four points dealing more especially with the trade-union side oi 
our work, and I take it that is the" side in which you are most in- 
terested. 

Labor in our country has, from the beginning of the war, been 
taken into the confidence of the Government, the Government seek- 
ing its cooperation on every conceivable occasion, and that has been 
one of the greatest factors in making matters proceed smoothly. 
We have had differences of opinion in our country, as you no doubt 
will have differences of opinion here, regarding certain issues in- 
volved in the war, but in justice to our side of the hearing point, as 



22 BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

you call it, there has been no doubt as to the position of organized 
labor there. From the very moment when those unfortunate refu- 
gees from Belgium landed on our shores, our fellow companions in 
trade-union movement were animated by one spirit alone, to come to 
the rescue and the defense of those helpless men, women, and chil- 
dren, and endeavor by their strength to restore them to their country 
at the earliest possible moment. 

M.J office happens to be in a building in the heart of London, first 
called the Strand — I have no doubt your President knows it well — in 
which a committee was set up, known as the Belgium refugees com- 
mittee ; and morning after morning, for something like four months, 
I saw and all of my colleagues saw grandmothers, daughters, daugh- 
ters' children, old men, hundreds and hundreds, day by day, stream- 
ing into that office^ with their little parcels, brown paper in some 
cases, with a wickerwork box in others, and their belongings brought 
with them and carried b}'^ the children themselves. There they were, 
ruthlessly sent out from their own country by the greatest military 
juggernaut that our world has ever seen. God help the men and God 
help the women who would stand at that door and see those helpless 
people trickling into the building day in and day out. God help the 
man in particular who would not say to himself, " By heaven, give 
me the means, give me a rifle, or give me something whereb}^ I can 
strike a blow for these people who have been rendered helpless and 
their homes and their country overridden by that great military 
power." That is the spirit of our men. It was the fact that the Ger- 
man rulers had dishonored their nation, and it was that spirit that 
animated our men. and. as Mr. Thomas has said, within a very few 
months of the outbreak of the war we had the spectacle of something 
like 3,000,000 of our men— 3,000,000 of our men did not hesitate. 
You know what they have endeavored to do. I am not going to go 
too far. but I will say if they have not been able to restore the Bel- 
giums to their own country, yet they have prevented the German 
armies from overrunning France ; they gave the French nation time 
to breathe again and. to use a common expression, get their second 
wind; and if our little army did nothing but that — and by heaven 
there are not many of them left — they have done something which, 
when the history of this^ world is written, will redound to the credit 
of the men who left our shores two and one-half years ago. [Ap- 
plause.] 

I want to deal with three or four points that will be of interest to 
you. A question was raised in this room a day or two ago regarding 
exemptions of men for military service ; that is, the exemption of men 
not because they do not want to take their share of national defense, 
but because their services can be better utilized in other directions; 
and before our military service act came into operation— in other 
words, conscription — the parliamentary committee approached the 
war office authorities, and it was pointed out to them that it was 
absolutely necessarj^ that a large number of trade-union officials, 
men who were what we call prominent officials — it was absolutely 
necessary that the services of those men should be retained in order 
to deal with any questions that might arise in their own particular 
trades. Those trades were mainly engineering, shipbuilding, and 
that kind of thing. We were met in a very ready spirit by the war 
office ; they recognized that it was to the national interest "that, side 



BRITISH LABOR S WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 23 

by side with the big armies that were being raised, the trade-union 
organizations should not only be allowed to proceed with their work, 
but should retain the benefit of the services of many of their chief 
officials: and we communicated Avith each trade-union, told them the 
position, sent them a schedule to fill up, and asked them to return to 
us the name or names of the men who, by the executive committee or 
members, were considered to be indispensable to the continued use- 
fulness of their organization. I will not give the exact number, but 
there was a large number of names sent into the war office, and at 
least 50 per cent of those names were accepted by the war office, and 
the men are noAv still conducting the work Qf their respective unions. 
That has been recognized as a sound thing to do. There has not been 
one word in the public press of our country pointing to the fact that 
-certain trade-union officials were exempted. The reason for that is 
this, because the Government — as Mr. Thomas has said^were wise 
enough to consult labor in every stage of the war. 

Let me say upon that, conferences similar to this were called at the 
request of the prime minister. We had conferences not only with the 
prime minister present, Mr. Asquith, but with Lord Kitchener, Lloyd- 
George, and two or three other cabinet ministers, probably for the 
first time in our history meeting us on our own ground, coming from 
their respective offices and meeting a representative body of trade- 
unionists as we are meeting a representative body this morning. The 
public at large has recognized the fact that labor had well responded 
to the invitation of the Government: that labor had made u\) its 
mind to do all it could to strengthen the Government in its actions: 
and for that reason not one Avord has been said regarding the exemp- 
tion of certain trade-union officials from that particular act of Par- 
liament. 

I take it that that is a point which you. in turn, will consider, 
because Ave understand that conscription is to be the ruling principle 
here, and })ossibly you, like ourselves, will find it necessary to make 
an application of that kind. Mr. Thomas has referred to the dilu- 
tion of labor, and it is true there are many thousands of women who 
haA'e been introduced into various branches of industry. I AAant to 
give you a case affecting the printers. I do not knoAv that Ave printers 
are particidarly conservative, but up until June of last year we had 
refused certain requests by certain employers that Avomen should be 
alloAved to go into their industry. Strange to say — there is no em- 
ployer in this room Avho Avill mind my saying this, because they must 
be good employers, or otherAvise tliey Avould not be present in this 
room — there Avas a certain class of employers in the printing trade 
who, any time during the past 20 years, have Avished the union to 
alloAv AAomen to be introduced into certain phases of that industry, 
and we men have ahvays successfully resisted that. But immediately 
Avhen this war broke out the old request came forward again: they 
wanted us to meet them in conference Avith a vieAv to Avomen bein^ 
introduced into the trade. We put. I might say, '' our feet doAvn " 
again, and so things went on until June of last year. Then there 
Avere three directions in Avhich man labor Avas not of sufficient quan 
tity, and Ave agreed to meet in conference under the auspices of a 
Government department, namely, the home office. It was a very 
friendly conference, and an agreement was draAvn up: and this is 
the point I Avant to emphasize in connection with the agreement. 



24 BEITISH LABOR S WAE MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

First of all, before any woman — I speak of them with the greatest 
respect — can be introduced into the printing industry in England it 
must be made absolutely clear and certain that male labor can not 
be obtained; and if, as Mr. Thomas has said, male labor is short in 
the printing trade in one district but ample in another, the employers 
in the district in which male labor is short will not be allowed to 
introduce women so long as male labor can be supplied from any 
distance outside of that particular area. But more important still 
is this, that before an employer can act he must consult a local com- 
mittee of local employers of labor— local representatives of workmen 
and the Goverimient in this agreement have stipulated that no woman 
shall be introduced into any section of the printing trade in which, 
first of all, that local representative committee has not been first 
consulted. So there, you see, we have safeguarded ourselves not in 
an obstreperous manner but in defense of the rights we have secured 
by our combination. Obviously we are not prepared, as you are not 
prepared, at the request of a dozen or more employees, to throw aside 
all those safeguards that cost you, and those that have preceded you, 
not only many anxious hours but many large sums of money to secure. 
We are not prepared to forego those rights at the mere request of 
employers. Therefore we have safeguarded the position of the men, 
ancl we have attached considerable importance to setting up of local 
committees, because those men know the local conditions, and they 
have got their national organization to refer to if necessary. We 
feel that the interests of our workmen are thereby safeguarded, 
and I think the employers should have the same feeling that their 
interests are also safeguarded by that kind of machinery. 

Let me refer you to the question of labor as affecting docks. I will 
refer you to Liverpool, Southampton, and 30 or 40 docks, some more 
important than others. We found there in the early stages of the 
war that there was great difficulty in handling the cargoes, that the 
boats came in and they had to lie in the river in some cases for days 
and in some cases for weeks. It became a serious matter to see our 
ports congested and our men working like " niggers," and at last it 
was suggested that battalions of men should be formed. I used the 
word " battalions," because Lord Kitchener was resjDonsible for the 
suggestion. By the way, Lord Kitchener went down to Liverpool 
one day, and almost one of the first things he did was to go to the 
trades-union office. I am not aware in the history of our country that 
the war secretary of our countrj^, or of any other country, has ever 
done that. But he went to Jim Sexton's office, and the result of the 
interview was this, that the dock laborers' union agreed that a cer- 
tain number of their members should join the army, not for military 
purposes but in order to be able to go 10, 15, or 20 miles away from 
the particular district of Liverpool in order to assist in unloading 
vessels. Further than that, every member of that battalion was to 
be a trade-unionist, and if he forfeited his trade-union position he 
would be turned out of the army. That may be somewhat a singular 
thing to you, but that is still the position there. In London I think 
we have something like 10,000 men, dock workers, in military uni- 
forms, and all they are asked to do is this: Say, for instance, at a 
dock 20 miles down the river, if there is excess work there which the 
local men can not handle, then men are drafted from this battalion 



BEITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 25 

and sent clown by express speed in order to handle the work there 
Ihat can be done by the 30 military officei-s. 

There again a local committee has been set up. consisting of a 
representative of the Avar office, a representative of the Admiralty, a 
representative of the port of London, and a representative of labor. 
Those four men have to be consulted before either 1 man or 10,000 
of these men can be transferred from London itself to an outlying 
port. There again is labor taking its share, and, so far as I know, 
that system has worked splendidly and has been the means of reliev- 
ing the congestion at our various ports, and so much so that I think 
now, and, in fact, for the last 9 or 10 months, there has not been the 
slightest difficulty in handling any cargo that came along. So. w^hile 
these men are there in military uniform, they are not there for mili- 
tary service, but when they are transferred"^ to some other dock, in 
addition to the military pay, they receive the ordinary civilian pay, 
and if they work overtime they receive pay for overtime: if they 
work Sunda}^ they get double pay. 

They have the same rights as the civilians, and so far as the pay is 
concerned and working conditions, and the only alteration of these 
men is that they wear the King's uniform. 

After the munitions war act was passed the Government decided 
to set up Avhat was called a national advisory committee on war out- 
put. It only consisted of seven men, all labor representatives — not a 
joint committee of employers and workmen, but workmen alone. 
The duty of that committee was to receive any complaint that might 
arise in various parts of Great Britain with regard to the carrying 
out of the munitions act. Questions of necessity must arise where 
large bodies of men are at work. Men might be transferred from 
London to New Castle and there might be some question about the 
wage, and if it was not settled in a frendly way with the employer, 
then they could send it up to London. The work became so heavy 
that at least something like 70 local committees were set up, work- 
men's committees, men representing the standard trades in connec- 
tion with the war, and those committees have done excellent work. I 
am sure the Government will recognize their work as having been 
excellent. There is a gentleman here to-day from the munitioiis 
department who will agree Avith me, I think, when I say that the 
work of these committees in the main has been well carried out and 
they have been helpful in scores and scores of cases in preventing 
disputes arising in munitions areas which, if they had arisen, may 
have caused serious consequence in so far as delaying the work was 
concerned. Of course, there w^as the right of appeal to the Govern- 
ment, the right of appeal to the munitions department, but on the 
whole those committees have worked well, and that is another indica- 
tion of the direction in which the Government has been content to 
set up labor bodies in order to help deal Avith questions arising out of 
the administration of the particular act of Parliament. 

There is a further matter I would like to refer to, Mr. President. 
Obviously, Avhen large bodies of men are transferred from a hirge 
city to a smaller citv, in some cases as many as 1,000 men have been 
drafted from one place to another— I am speaking of the ordinary 
civilian mechanic— and it has not always been an easy matter to find 
housing accommodations for these men. It was soon found that 
there Avas an inclination to private housing for those at the expense 



26 BRITISH LABOR S WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAIST LABOR. 

of other people. In other words, soldiers' families were residing in 
apartments and houses, in an ordinary residence, and so on, people 
not engaged in munition work, and there was an increasing tendency 
in order to provide room for the influx of labor to give these people 
notice to terminate their agreements not only to find room for the 
newcomers but to welcome them by claiming a much higher rate 
from them than they were receiving from the old tenants. Our 
Government was shrewd enough — and shall I say generous enough — 
to see the risk that was being run. But above and beyond every- 
thing was this consideration, that here were our men struggling on 
the other side of the Channel ; here were their wives and children at 
home running the risk of being deprived of their rooms in order that 
the landlord or the property owner may get a little higher rent from 
somebody else. The Government passed a very strong act, called 
the rent act, and under the terms of that act of Parliament no prop- 
erty owner or no landlord dared turn out either the wife or the 
family of a soldier or of the ordinary civilian following his ordinary 
occupation. [Applause.] 

If he darecl to raise the rent to the extent of sixpence, he would 
incur a penalty under this act. As I say. it is not a large act, but a 
very important one. That is one of the things that is valuable 
in itself out of the war. The act will be operative for at least 
six months after the war, and if we get a sufficiently democratic 
government as the result of an election which must be fought before 
that period there may be just a chance of that act remaining a part 
of the permanent statutes. 

I must not inflict myself longer upon you, and I understand ques- 
tions will be put to my friend Mr. Thomas and myself, and we will 
be only too delighted to answer them. Therefore may I say in con- 
clusion this: Certain incidents arose. I will not refer to the par- 
ticular incidents, but one incident in particular, and others arose 
in this countr^^ or affecting this country which I feel sure must have 
aroused the indignation of every citizen of this great Continent of 
America. We, from our 3,000 miles distance, wondered what the 
feeling of this great people was on this particular occasion. Time 
went by, and we hoped — we did not ask. We knew Avhat our people 
were undergoing better than yourselves. But, as I say, we hopecl — 
we did not ask, but we waited ; and not so many weeks ago we in the 
old country took up our morning papers and read, with a degree of 
pleasure which I really could not express in words, that magnificent 
message which the First Citizen of the United States delivered to 
Congress. [Applause.] 

My feeling then, _Mr. President, was this : Great as this country 
was prior to the delivery of that message, great as it always will re- 
main, must remain, America was never greater in the eyes of the. 
world than it was after the delivery of that speech. [Applause.] 
When the history of this world is written, when the deeds of valor 
have been written in polished language, as they will be by the future 
historians, when those deeds of valor will not only redound to the 
high creclit of the old country and incidentally to yourselves among 
all the diplomatic matters that have arisen in connection with this 
war, nothing will go down in history, in my judgment, that will 
stand out more prominently in history than the message to which I 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. " 27 

referred. In my judgment it will become one of the classics of the 
ages that are to follow. 

Now, you have taken the plunge, you have determined with the 
same strength of purpose, in my judgment, and the same clearness 
of vision as our own people. You have determined that the time 
has arrived when you must take off your coats and stand shoulder 
to shoulder to the allies. ^Ve hope for much from that. Fi-ance an- 
ticipates much from that, and I can not anticipate a greater thrill 
to the French people when they find your first detachment of men 
on their soil and your glorious flag of liberty floating over these men. 
1 can not conceive a greater delight to those men and a greater en- 
thusiasm. Our men will be equally joyous, but I do appeal to 
labor, as I see it here, and I do appeal to labor outside this room, 
that there will be heavy sacrifices to make both on the military and 
on the naval side as well as on the civilian side, but I have sufficient 
knowledge, I think, of American labor as represented by the fine men 
you send over to our country year by year. I have sufficient knowl- 
<^dge. may I say, to feel this, that having set your eyes toward France, 
having determined to avenge the insults which have been leveled at 
this great people, that you are going to take your part in bringing 
this awful Avar to a successful conclusion. I do not care what the 
strength of your detachments may be ; I do not care what the strength 
of your Navy may be, but I do know this, that you, with us, will be 
animated with one spirit and one desire alone, to uphold that which 
l^reviously we looked upon as humanitarian and civilizing influences, 
Avhicli sometimes I have asked the question, what has been the value 
of our boasted civilization and all the religious teachings of the past 
centuries? I ask myself that question as the first question when 
there was a declaration of war. When we have seen what has been 
done, when w'e have seen the horror of men going into battle, and 
they are prepared to make the supreme sacrifice, and the horrible 
Things, the foul things that ruling authorities of Germany could be 
guilty of, the desire must be to bring back to the minds of civiliza- 
tion, to the civilized world, that humanity has its rights and that 
you. with us. are out in order to defend to the uttermost those 
glorious rights which, without them, we should really be living in 
a state of barbarism. 

It is up to you to help the allies in bringing back to the miuds of 
the people of the world that there are rights to be conserved, there 
are rights that we are fighting for, and with that spirit and with 
that animation Ave are satisfied on our side that everything will be 
Avell when the curtain rings down on this horrible catastrophe. 
[Applause.] 

The Chairman. I should very much like that all of you who are 
here in attendance at this conference Avould remain, so that when 
Ave take our noonday recess we may do so in an orderly fashion 
rather than having the conference become utterly disturbed by one 
and another leaving. 

I may say. too, that Ave would like to have the name and address 
and the association or organization represented of every lady and 
gentleman a member of this committee. There is a register provided, 
and Ave would like to haA^e you register during some time iu the day. 

In order that Ave mav keep our engagement with the President it 
will be necessary to take a recess somewhat earlier than we otherAvise 



28 BRITISH LABOE S WAR MESSAGE TO AMEEICAX LABOE. 

would, SO that you may have an opportunity to have a little lunch 
and reconvene or proceed immediately to the White House. Then, 
again,- the popular fad has made itself manifest by a recjuest of the 
camera men and moving-picture men^ that a group picture and an 
animated picture may be taken of all those Avho are participating in 
this meeting. Unless there is real fundamental objection, perhaps 
fearing that a U boat or an aircraft may bombard us at some time 
when we are unprepared, I assume you do not mind entering the 
moving-picture profession. 

Mr. O'CoNNELL. Mr. Gompers, the body will gather at the east 
entrance of the White House at 2.15. We will have 15 minutes in 
order to line up and walk into the White House. 

The Chairman. Ladies and gentlemen, let me say that all those 
who enter the White House will have to be identified by some one 
whom I shall designate. I will appoint those Avho have the largest 
personal acquaintance of the participants in this meeting. I will ask 
Mr. Easley, Mr. Morrison, Mr. McSorley, and Miss Beeks to aid 
in that connection. Please be at the east entrance to the White House 
a little before 2.15, so that you may take your positions and identify 
those who can enter the White House to meet the President. 

I will say, too, that the committee has arranged for a badge, 
printed on blue silk, reading, " Representative of Committee on 
Labor, Washington, D. C.^, May 15, 1917," with a miniature American 
flag attached to a button, making a complete badge. The flags will 
be distributed to the members of the committee in attendance when 
we take a recess. 

We surely have time enough now to hear from another direct rep- 
resentative. We have a number of them, but I am sure you will 
agree with me that what has already been stated to you is a guaranty 
that there will not be one moment wasted, but on the contrary it will 
be profitably employed. I now ask Mr. Joseph Davies to tell us some- 
thing. Mr. Davies is private secretary to Lloyd-George, and he came 
over with Mr. Bowerman, and Mr. Thomas, and Mr. Garrod, who 
is one of the representatives on the board of munitions. It was my 
good fortune to hear him yesterday make his statement to the Council 
of National Defense. That statement, together with the personal 
conversations, warrants me in saying to you that you Avill hear some- 
thing of deepest and the keenest interest, as has been demonstrated by 
the experience of the minister of munitions and their assistants and 
the workers in Great Britain. 

I have the great pleasure of presenting to you Mr. Garrod, as Mr. 
Davies is not in the room at the present time. 

Mr. Gabrod. Mr. Gompers and gentlemen, I am going to be very 
brief indeed. First, I want, and I am sure we all want, to give a 
chance to our colleagues from Canada, and certainly I feel that any- 
thing I can say is bound to be extraordinarily flat after the most mov- 
ing speech which we listened to from Mr. Thomas. When I listened 
to that speech I really thought that all we had done in the war was 
certainly better than one would have thought possible. 

You can have gathered from what Mr. Gompers has said that I am 
neither fish, flesh, nor fowl. I am not a labor man, not an employer, 
but I represent a government department, whose role is to hold the 
balance between contending labor and capital and to earn the good 
will of both sides. But I am not altogether serious about that, be- 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 29 

cause I think we do arrange a certain simonnt of good will and Ave 
have, as a department, done a certain amount of good work. But 
what I do want to say to you is this: That any good work by which 
we have arranged that good will could only have been done by 
that hearty cooperation which labor has given to us. Mr. Bowerman 
has described to you, and in some degree Mr. Thomas, the method we 
have always pursued throughout the war. No legislative enactment 
dealing with labor has gone before the House of Commons which has 
not first been in conference between the minister of munitions and 
the representatives of organized labor, and organized labor, let me 
sixj. has always come to those conferences in the only spirit possi- 
ble, that is to say, in the spirit of sacrifice. 

I spoke yesterday to the war cabinet, and I said there something 
that I want to repeat again here about the sacrifice made by labor. 
I said there that it is not hard for men on the battle field in a great 
cause to toss their lives away. That is a great sacrifice, but it is one 
which the war has shown that men make gladly and almost uncon- 
cernedly. But there is another sacrifice which a nation is called upon 
to make in a great time like the present; every class, employer and 
employee, has got to make the sacrifice of his own prejudices and his 
most cherished convictions, and it is not easy to do that when you are 
apart from the battle field and the trenches and when you have not 
the applause of your own class, and when you have not even got your 
own applause. That is in some way, I think, the hardest of all sacri- 
fice, and throughout the war, let me say, speaking for the depart- 
ment which in England has dealt so much with labor, that is a sacri- 
fice which labor has made in a most splendid fashion. [Applause.] 

What I should say, if I could offer any advice to labor and to em- 
ployers as they sit here, would be that they should lose no time, no 
matter whether the "vvar is going to be long or short, in coming to con- 
ference and in a spirit of sacrifice. We are out to win this war, but 
we have also got a much wider task than that. We are out to win 
the war, but we have also, after that, to in some sense reorganize the 
world. We can only do that, I believe, on the lines on which in my 
own country we have already started. We must get labor and gov- 
ernment and capital together. We must get them working together 
and get them at conferences, and we must create between them a spirit 
of confidence by which they may work together loyally and without 
faltering in order to overcome the ravages of war. [Applause.] 

The Chairman. It would be in order now to call upon Judge 
Amos, who. is a member of the British commission, the envoys of that 
country, to participate in the conferences which are being held with 
representatives of the Government, and in part I say that you. as 
members of my committee, are part of the governmental functions of 
the United States. I should then call upon the labor men represent- 
ing the Canadian Government. But there is a gentleman who is 
with us just now who was just able to get here a few minutes ago. 
He is the first vice president of the American Federation of Labor. 
He has been appointed by the President of the United States to be a 
member of the commission to go to Russia and bring the Avord of 
greeting from the democracy of America to the new democracy of 
Russia. I am going to ask Mr. James Duncan to address this con- 
ference briefly, and I now have the pleasure of presenting Mr. 
Duncan to you. [Applause.] 



30 BRITISH LABOR S WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

Mr. James Duncan. Mr. President, ladies and gentlemen, fellow 
workers in the great cause of humanity, I am very glad to have this 
opportunity to meet so many of you before I start upon a long jour- 
ney. I received very sudden information on Friday evening to come 
to Washington right away, and as I at least once heard one young 
lady say, I express the same thought, " It is very sudden." How- 
ever, I was able to arrange my affairs as best I could and had a very 
interesting conference with the President of the United States and 
the Secretary of State, Mr. Lansing, yesterday, being photographed 
and having m}?^ record written up for the rogues' gallery, and all 
those things that diplomats go through, and I leave this afternoon for 
a long journe3^ I can not give you the details because I am not 
posted in that kind of diplomacy, and while they have supplied me 
with some instructions, when it came to the route and the dates there 
was a blank, and I was told I would be under Gen. Scott, of the 
Army, for some time at least, and then he would turn me over to 
Admiral Glennan, of the United States Navy. So we will leave some 
port of the United States for some port on the other side, and if 
fortune then favors us we will then make our way by land to Petro- 
gracl, Russia. 

The object of sending the commission, and especially in so far as 
I am concerned, as one of you and representing you, is to carry a 
message of good-will not only from the organized-labor movement of 
the United States of America, and in so far as the American Federa- 
tion of Labor is concerned for Canada, but for all the people to carry 
a message of love and esteem to the young democracy of new Russia. 

Our commission is not going there to dictate to them what they 
should do, or to interfere in their political affairs. We are to advise 
them and give them such information as would be of value to them 
in establishing their new democracy, and, incidentalh^, instead of 
criticizing or dictating, to ask them in what manner the people of 
the United States, and incidentally the organized workers of North 
America can be of service and help them in their present crisis. 

I fully realize the great responsibility of the commission and with 
the same spirit backed up by your support for these many years, I 
shall endeavor to do the level best that is in me to represent you and 
all the people of the country in that message and in that work. 

Incidentall3^ when coming to the hall this morning, I thought of 
the gTeat change that has taken place in the last few years. In 1886 
my side partner. President Gompers, and I for sometime past have 
been the only two delegates who have been attending the American 
Federation of Labor conventions who were present at the first meet- 
ing of the American Federation of Labor under its present title in 
Columbus, Ohio, in November or December of 1886. At that time 
the organized movement throughout the country had difficulty some- 
times in getting public halls in which to meet. The press was not 
with us. If we got a report in the press it was in agate type in the 
last column on the last page and in the lower end of the last column. 
In fact, I think they used it as a filler and they did not shed any 
tears if the make-up man left it out. 

At the present time the great change which has taken place is not 
noticeable on the Continent of Europe but among ourselves. This 
magnificent meeting is an evidence of it and to have one of your 
number selected by the President of the United States to go upon 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 31 

a mission like this is a great honor, I consider it, to the organized- 
labor movement of North America. [Applause.] 

It is in part a fulfillment of some of the most recent pugent dec- 
larations by the American Federation of Labor, that in so far as 
governmental functions are concerned, organized labor should be 
represented in some capacity. 

Senator Root is the ambassador extraordinary, and, so far as 
diplomac}^ is concerned in governmental affairs, the responsibility of 
that will rest upon him. By his rank he is entitled to it — he is ex- 
Secretary of State and was Senator so long and perhaps has as 
active a brain as any man in the United States of America. We 
may not at all agree with his politics, but we all agree with his 
greatness, with his reasoning and the most excellent manner in which 
he has in a 5 or 10 minutes' speech put more meat into a speech than 
most any of our public writers or orators. 

I shall endeavor to do the best I can to conform to the views of 
the others, having in mind the labor movement here and to do what 
I can to help the working people of Russia to keep in line, perhaps 
yielding a point here and there with the other groups in order that 
they may establish a stable democratic government. 

I feel if they are level headed upon the subject that they Avill be 
able to do so. Naturally, they have been held down for a long time 
in that great country, and, almost on the snap of a finger having 
gotten their freedom, it will take them a little time to know what 
they have to do. There will therefore be contentions in the European 
labor movements and there will be clashing, but we are hopeful that 
all of that will be rubbed off in time; and from the fact that the 
leaders in the army take sides with the working people and are meet- 
ing in council with them at the present time, it looks to me as if there 
is little doubt but that the army will remain with the working 
groups, because if they falter and then an army of absolutism is 
established, it Avill be the first duty of that absolute monarchy to see 
to it that the heads of the army be immediately cut off because of 
having stood for what the Czar's family stood for. I think they will 
therefore be bound to stand pat upon that, and with such advice, per- 
haps, as they may get from other countries, especially from this 
country, France, and Great Britain, they will be discouraged in their 
work. 

It is a most pleasing thing to drop in for a few minutes and find 
our colleagues from Great Britain. It shows that Great Britain 
is recognizing the labor movement as being one of the greatest move- 
ments in the great make-up of the great country. I have known 
most of those who are here, have met them, and have admired their 
great work, and if God is kind to us and He may settle this dispute 
in P^urope within the next month or two I might then have an 
opportunity to meet them; and if I have a chance to get back that 
way to leave a message there of what I have been able to accomplish, 
it will afford me a great deal of pleasure. [Applause.] 

The Chairman. I am going to ask Judge Amos, who is a member 
of the British delegation sent here by the British Government, to 
say something to us. I had the pleasure and honor of being intro- 
duced to the judge this morning and of meeting him for the first 
time. I am told that he delivered an address in New York City quite 
recently. The Lord is with us and will remain with us. The state- 



32 BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

ment was made to me that the address which Judge iVmos delivered 
in NeAv York, almost in the same words, or in the same thought, or 
anything that he desires to express, w^ould be appropriate at this 
time, and I have the honer of presenting to you Judge Amos. [Ap- 
plause.] 

Judge Amos. Mr. President, I certainly have no intention of ad- 
dressing you at as great length that I did in New York. I am afraid 
m}^ speech lasted for at least an hour, and T hope I shall not detain 
you more than 10 minutes. 

I feel, Mr. Gompers, after the speeches we have heard this morn- 
ing, anything I will say will appear to be flat and technical. We 
have heard speeches from Mr. Thomas and Mr. Bowerman, who have 
taken a very responsible share in shaping the great masses of policy 
in England, and I have had no such experience. But I have had con- 
siderable experience in the bureau of munitions, which, in our opin- 
ion, has grappled with a problem which is rather a novel one. Our 
minister thought it worth while to attach me to the British commis- 
sion for the purpose of going on the witness stand when called upon 
to do so to explain the way in which we have dealt with the problem 
which, at the beginning of the organization, may not have occurred 
to you. 

The problem is this: In times of peace the conduct of industry, 
the question of what shall be manufactured and what men shall labor 
at, what machinery shall be employed for, what material should be 
used for, is left with satisfactory results to the laws of supply and 
demand. Manufacturers use their plants for a product for which 
they can get the greatest money reward. That is impossible in war 
time. When a great war breaks out we realize a great new element 
comes into the market, the Government, and it wants enormous 
amounts of entirely novel kinds of supplies, and those requirements 
naturally upset the entire organization of industry. Quite apart 
from the fact in England and France at the outbreak of the war, 
hundreds of thousands of men left their employment, there was this 
great demand of the Government for holding new activities. The 
question that has to be met is, How are you going to shepherd indus- 
try into the new channels? You could clo it by the Government 
offering for everything it wanted a price so attractive to labor and 
to the manufacturer that people would be tumbling over each other 
to do what the Government suggested. But that would be a solu- 
tion of a problem which would lead to confusion in a short time, and 
you have to use other devices. In order to get men for the army we 
appealed to the principle of patriotism; but we now come to learn, 
and you have come to the same conclusion, that that was rather a 
wasteful way of doing it, to rely on that exclusively, and it would 
lead to many undesirable results. About 200,000 of our miners went 
to the front in the first two months, and that was too many. That 
is what lead us to army drafting. That is one of the ways we had 
to guide people, to tell them what was wanted. It seems easy at first 
blush to say it is a simple thing to issue instructions to the public, 
to the manufacturer and to labor, to put Government work first. 
But when one pauses to reflect, one perceives that is almost impos- 
sible. It is not only real work you want done, but you have to keep 
the nation alive, you must keep the railways running, you must keep 
your towns in a state of sanitation, you must keep your food supplies 



BRITISH LABOR S WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 33 

iioing. SO war work is an insiitHcient description of what must l)e 
absolutely attended to in order to keep going normally. 

If you come to the question of war work, I will asl< what is war 
work i It is easy enough to give examples, such as the manufactur- 
ing of rifles and explosives; but we come down to a little more (bfli- 
cut (]uestion. Those who heard me speak in New York yesterday 
must pardon my taking the same example that I did there. Let us 
suppose there is a man manufacturing a machine, and he knows it 
is a machine for drawing Avire. An order has been placed with him 
by a man who is a manufacturer of Avire. The manufacturer of wire 
knows he is going to numufacture wire nails; the man avIio manu- 
factures nails has an order fr(m) a man who has a contract for boxes, 
and the man who has a conti-act for boxes has an ordei- from a man 
who makes munitions. But how does the man wiio manufactures 
the machines for draAving Avire know that it is for Avar Avork ^ That 
i> a problem Avhich arises in tAvo forms; it arises Avith regard to deter- 
mination of Avhat work a manufacturer should put forth in his shop, 
and it is a problem that arises with regard to the decision of the 
(juestion of what men shall be allowed to go to the army and what 
men shall be re<|uired to stay at their ordinary industry. It is not 
a (luestion that can be decided immediately but one that needs a 
great amount of adjudication, instructions, confei-ences. decisions; 
and it needs a large amount of machinery. 

We were very conscious in the early days of the Avar that the 
workmen in the factories wanted to knoAv that they were on Avar 
woi'k. If a man was not on war work, he wanted to get onto it. 
HoAV are you going to tell him ^ There is a certain temjjtation of the 
employer to strain the point in order to tell him, as he desires to 
knoAV. Well, suppose a man is manufacturing shafting, he has re- 
cently delivered a certain amount of shafting to a factory Avliich he 
knows is extenduig itself to take gun contracts. He would be rather 
apt to go on and say that all the shafting he was making was for war 
Avork, and once caught doing that he Avill destroy the confidence of 
his employees that the work Avhich they are doing is Avar work, and 
it becomes urgent upon the (iovernment to find some means by which 
(he truth can be told not only to the Aviirkmen, but to the subcon- 
tractor. The maclunery set up in England grcAv slowly, ajul we by no 
means realized the importance of this problem. 

You have the natural c(mipetiti(m betAveen the govermnental de- 
partments, all trying to pi-ess forward theii- Avork as the most impor- 
tant. You have the competition betAveen the War Department and 
the Xavy Depai'tment, and so on all aiound. all wanting (o get the 
work of theii- department pressed forward first. You also have a 
natural and a ])r()per competition betAveen the immediate require- 
ments for Avar supplies and the re(]uirenuMits of industries. You_ 
Avant to keep your industries alive as far as possible, and some of 
(hem are necessarv to the country, not only because they maintain 
vour. trade, but because they are' absolutely essential to the life oC 
the country. 

If you will ])ard<!n a j)ei-sonal statement, one of the last things 
said to me bef( re I left England Avas. "Do not fail to lell them how 
impoi-tant class !> Avork." r)V that we mean the work Avhich keeps 
the country alive. Class A is the woi-k re(|uired for the waging of 

S. Dec. S;4. (i.5~l •'{ 



34 BRITISH LABOE/s WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

war. The machinery that we came to ultimately set up involved a 
committee in London representing as far as possible all conflicting 
interests represented by different departments of the Government. 
This body went to work trying to answer questions from all parts 
of the country, from manufacturers, representatives of labor, and 
different representatives of the Government, all arguing as to the 
degree of the unportance of the work they were engaged upon. The 
committee grappled for months in an attempt to answer these ques- 
tions one by one. There was a visionary invention tried which 
turned out to be a success, and it was the machinery under which 
every British citizen was made a Government official for the purpose 
of saying whether or not his work was war work. That sounds 
paradoxical, but I will explain how it was done. I may say in the 
first month at the starting of this machinery we isued a million 
forms a month, containing in the first a little code telling people 
in simple language, and we sacrified accuracy for simplicity, what 
was war work and what we considered work necessary to keep the 
country alive. War work, we said, was any contract placed by one of 
the fighting departments, the minister munitions, the war office, or 
the Admiralty. Any man who had a contract for one of those 
departments knew that he was on war Avork. Then we had certain 
definitions as to what was necessary to keep the country going, such as 
Tirgent repairs to industrial machinery, etc. The man who manu- 
factures does not know who is going to buy his stuff unless you help 
him and he will not be able to keep his stocks up to the level in com- 
petition with any kind of war work. So we have this little code. 
Then we practically sent broadcast to every citizen domiciled in 
Great Britain a pamphlet, and we said, " If you have a contract 
which comes within the definition of war work and you want to place 
a subcontract for buying your material, you are entitled to issue a 
certificate with your order, declaring that your said order is war 
work." Then the recipient of this certificate was under a duty to 
obey and to do this work first. If the certificate was given him by 
another private citizen, it was, nevertheless, a Government order. 
He in turn would give another certificate to another manufacturer 
and right along down the scale to bedrock. Take, for example, a 
man who has a contract for small-arms' munitions. That is by defi- 
nition war work, because the contract has been placed by the Army. 
That man wants boxes. He can issue a class A certificate ; the man 
who wants the nails issues a class A certificate, and all the way down 
the scale each of those men show on good authority that their work 
is wai- work. It is an instruction to the manufacturer; it is an 
instruction to the laborer, and he can ask. if necessary, to see the 
certificate. -but in any event it is authority to the manufacturer to 
put the appropriate label on the work, and there is a public interest at 
work to see that those labels are not abused, and we believe they 
were not abused at the outset more than in 5 per cent of the cases. 
The great advantage is that all that is to the good. I am persuaded 
that this is a problem which in a great industrial country like yours 
is one you will have to address yourselves to. 

The whole question of what is the most advantageous employment 
for men to be engaged upon in war time is not a simple question, 
but it needs a great deal of earnest cooperation to overcome. I think 
probably my colleague, Mr. Garrod, can talk witli more knowledge 



BRITISH LABOR S WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 35 

than I, h\nn another side from which this (juestion lias been ap- 
proached. There has been an attempt to define certain classes of 
employment which are so importaiit that they are considered indis- 
pensable. Take, for instance, the transpoi-t workers, the men in the 
steel works, I shoidd say the men employed in farming — just the 
mere fact that the man is employed on them is a self-evident fact 
that he is employed on the most important work. 

There are some types of employment in England which are so 
insufficiently supplied — the very fact that insufficient men are work- 
ing in them is self-evident that there are not enough of them; they 
are too rare. Anybody can say he must not go to the army. One 
should say what he should do when he does not go to the army. I 
am sure your sessions here will have to assist in determining that 
question, and it Avill mean the most ardent and energetic cooperation 
of labor throughout the country to assist the Government in seeing 
to it that men who. owing to their peculiar skill or knowledge, are 
best left at their trade, to see to it that they are guided to do the 
work which is most urgently recjuired. 

I am afraid these things are rather arid before a meeting like this, 
but I must thank you for the opportunity of speaking to you. That 
is my gospel, Avhicli I was sent here to preach, and T Avant to impress 
upon 3'ou that organized labor can help determine and help shepherd 
men into places where they are most needed. 

Mr. Gompers has asked me to say a word aliout the system of con- 
trol, but I am not certain that I am the best man to describe that. 
T found when I first arrived in the United States that there was a 
belief current that the method of making manufacturers particularly 
do the right thing had been somewhat of a secret. I do not think 
that is accurate. I belicA^e, broadly speaking, it is correct to say that 
the (jovernment has proceeded on the double principle of buying 
people's work and making them want to sell. That is particularly 
true, I think, with regard to the manufacturers' point of view. Work 
is done by contract. People are not ordered to take contracts but 
they have been put in such position that they want it and that has 
become more and more evident as time goes on. In most industries 
there is no good of a man thinking he is going to be allowed to keep 
his shop running, or that he is going to get work unless he is on work 
which the Government wants him on. 

There is an impression in the United States that there are fac- 
tories in England which are under specific control, where everybody 
from the manager down has to do exactly what he is told by the (lov- 
ernment, and there is a man standing in uniform, somewhere, telling 
him what to do. That is entirely incorrect. We did not know that 
the rest of the world would be the critics of the language we chose. 
We call these remarkable instruments " tanks." But it is someAvhat 
excusable, that you should imagine that there Avas something ex- 
clusive aliout a controlled establishment here, but I remember for 
some months there Avas hardly anybody in the ministry of munitions 
Avho understood the thing correctly. 

Mr. Thomas has already described to you the kind of industrial 
treaty Avhich Mr. Lloyd-George set up under the munitions act, 
under which capital and labor both made concessions. Subject to 
correction I am almost ashamed to discuss these questions before 



36 BBITISH LABOk's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN L-ABOR. 

some of the gentlemen who know the subjects far better than 1 do. 
This industrial treaty was put into operation in certain establish- 
ments which ^vere announced bv proclamation by the minister ; that 
is to say, the surrender of the right, or the manufacturer giving 
up a share of his profits in those establishments which were called 
controlled. This is what is meant by controlled establishments. 
There are now about 5,000 of them. In the first instance those estab- 
lishments were working on direct war work, but subsequently, by the 
(.peration of that which I have already described to you, Ave could 
not draw a line between war work and what was not. As the posi- 
tion gets tighter you get more interested in cencentrating all your 
energies toward seeing that nothing is wasted. The number of estab- 
lishments in which you want to have no waste of effort gets greater 
and greater and a very large number of establishments are now 
included under the heading of controlled establishments which would 
not have been put on that list before. But the main purpose, from 
the viewpoint of the Government, is to get increased output. I 
should also mention that various reasons have operated to increase 
the number of those establishments, and for one reason, I know at 
one time when the Government was anxious to get establishments 
controlled, it used to try to persuade the manufacturer that his profits 
would be estimated in a more liberal fashion by the minister of muni- 
tions than by the treasurer. I think the ultimate result was they 
found the treasurer was going to get after them, too. 

I must call attention to the fact that from the viewpoint of trying 
to get the Government work done, giving instructions, shepherding 
people into the right course of industry, that is the operation which 
we attempt to apply to all departments, all forms of activity in 
England which is not confined to these 5,000 establishments. These 
5,000 establishments will be selected for a purpose for which the 
machinery is put in operation, but it has nothing to do with the 
general activity of trying to get everybody. Farms are not con- 
trolled establishments, but we are putting great effort into develop- 
ing agriculture. The big railroads, I believe, are not controlled 
establishments, but the same considerations apply to them. The 
notion that there are certain establishments in England which are 
under a particular kind of control by Govermiient is an inaccurate 
notion, due to an unfortunate use of the word. The whole machinery 
of the Government is applied in every corner and recess to get people 
on the job they are most fitted for and doing the most important 
work. [Applause.] 

The Chairman. It is now 1 o'clock, and I assume that it is only 
fair to interpret your desire to take a recess, but I desire to announce 
that after the representatives of labor, sent from Canada, speak to 
ns, the discussion will be wide open and every opportunity afforded 
for asking questions. "■ May I ask that Mdien we take a recess you will 
Avait in front of the building to accomnxodate the moving-picture 
people and probablv have a picture taken that mav be of interest to 
all of us? 

We are to meet at the east entrance of the White House at 2.15 — ■ 
not later. It is possible that no one will be admitted who arrive 
after 2.15. The committee I have requested to act is to identify 
those who are to enter the Wliite House and they will be there five 



BRTTTSH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 37 

iiiiiiutes ahead of time at least. Immediately after meeting the 
President at 2.80, whenever that shall be concluded, we will come 
here and resume our session at once, havina: taken a little luncheon 
not later. It is possible that no one will be admitted who arrives 
here, and if you do not register i)lease send in your name and ad- 
dress to us. 

(Thereupon, at 1 o'clock p. m.. the committee took a recess, to meet 
at the eastern gate of the White House at 2.15 o'clock p. m.) 

At 2.15 o'clock p. m. the members of the committee met at the east 
entrance of the White House and were received by President Wilson 
at 2.80 o'clock p. m., when Chairman Gompers made the following; 
remarks : 

Chairman (iompp:i{s. Mr. President, the ladies and gentlemen who 
:ij)pear hvve form part of the committee on labor for tlie conserva- 
tion and welfare of the workers of the Council of National Defense. 
On April 2 we had our first meeting, a general meeting of all those 
who had accepted membership on that committee. Since then wp^ 
ha^e organized our 10 committees and divisional committees, all 
making an attempt at the comprehensive work delegated to my com- 
mittee. 

The executive committee of 11 has met several times, sometimes 
twice a week, other times once a week, but always a whole day was 
given to the meeting. My general committee, the executive com- 
mittee, as Avell as the other committees ai-e all made up of men and 
women of all walks of life. They consist of representative labor 
men and labor women, officers and representatives of the organized 
labor movement in their respective industries or trades, and the 
hirgest business men. the biggest captains of industry in all our 
country, and that means in all the world. We have college pro- 
fessors, publicists, public men. officers of our Army and of our Navy, 
men and women, as T say, who have given some service to tlie country 
in some form or other, and at my invitation have voluntarily 
accepted service in order to be helpful in the great cause in which our 
country is now engaged. 

During this struggle in which we ha\e just entered, and the sac- 
I'ifices of which we now have no conception, during that period of the 
great struggle that must ensue, we hope, not only as Ave confidently 
believe, that the great principles which you have so clearly and em- 
l)hatically declared to the world, will triumj)!!. that democracy must 
])revail; it dare not be defeated. Humanity and civilization an^ the 
living ])rotests against it and we are of the opinion that the manhood 
and womanliood. the man power and the woman ])OAver. the con- 
sciousness that all oi.ii- ])eop]e are standing behind you giving their 
help to win this wonderful victory which, shall forever put an end to 
Pru.ssianism and militarism as expressed by their form of govern- 
ment. During that time it is our hope, and it is the mission of this 
committee to see to it that the standards of life shall not go down, 
at least not go doMU excei)t as a last resort, and as a last sacrifice 
essential to the safety for the defense of our Repul)lic and the ideals 
for which it stands. 

This committee comprises men and women froui many ])arts of the 
country. As you know, there is no compensation foi- tliem. oi- for 
any of us, nor is there even the exi)enses home for all these wlio have- 



38 BEITISH LABOE S WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

offered their voluntary services. Tliey come here, about two-thirds 
of the committee who are engaged in great affairs, and others tell 
us it is physically impossible for them to come. But they are here 
and I anticipate their wish in asking that they might have the privi- 
lege of calling upon you, sir, in order to pay their respects to j'ou, 
in which I most graciously join. 

We appreciate our being here and being able to express to you our 
greatest hope for your continued good health, for your mental and 
physical power to maintain to the last hour of your life, and may 
that last hour be long deferred. 

President Wilson. Mr. Gompers, ladies, and gentlemen, this is 
'<> most welcome visit, because it means a most welcome thing, the 
spontaneous cooperation of men from all walks of life interested to 
see that we do not forget any of the principles of our lives in meet- 
ing the great emergency that has come upon us. 

Mr. Gompers has expressed already one of the things that has 
l»een very much in mind of late. I have been very much alarmed 
at one or two things that have happened at the apparent inclination 
of the legislatures of one or two of our States to set aside, even tem- 
pararily, the laws which have safeguarded the standard of labor 
and of life. I think nothing would be more deplorable than that. 
We are tr^dng to fight in a cause which means the lifting of stand- 
;irds of life and we can fight tha't cause best by voluntary cooperation. 

I do not doubt that any body of men representing labor, the 
labor of this country, speaking for their fellows, will be willing to 
make an}^ sacrifice that is necessary in order to carry this contest 
to a successful issue, and in this confidence I feel that it would be 
inexcusable if we deprived men and women of such a spirit of any 
of the existing safeguards of the law. Therefore T shall exercise 
my influence, as far as it goes, most assuredly, to see that that does 
not happen, and that the sacrifice we make shall be voluntary, and 
not under the compulsion which mistakenly is interpreted to mean 
a lowering of the standards which w^e have sought through so many 
generations to bring to their present standing. 

Mr. Gompers has not overstated the case in saying that we are 
fighting for democracy in a larger sense than can be expressed in 
any political terms. There are many forms of democratic govern- 
ment; and we are not fighting for any particular form, but we are 
fighting for the essential part of it all, namely, that we are all 
equally interested in our social and political life, and all have a right 
to a A^oice in the Government under which we live, and that when 
men and women are equally admitted to those rights we have the 
best safeguard of justice and of peace that the world affords. There 
is no other safeguard. Let any group of men, whatever their orig- 
inal intentions, attempt to dictate to their fellow men what their 
political fortunes shall be, and the result is injustice and hardship 
and harsluiess and wrong of the deepest sort. 

Therefore we are jvist now feeling as we have never felt before 
our sense of comradeship. We shall feel it even more, because we 
have not yet made the sacrifices that we are going to make ; we have 
not yet felt the terrible pressure of suffering and pain of war, and 
we are going presently to feel it, and I have every confidence that 
as its pressure comes upon us our spirits will not falter but rise 
and be strengthened, and that in the last we shall have a national 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 39 

feeling aiul a national unity such as never gladdened our hearts 
before. 

I want to thank you for the compliment of this visit here. If 
there is any way in which I can cooperate with the purpose of this 
committee or those with whom they are laboring, it will afford me a 
sense of privilege and a pleasure. 'May I have the pleasure of shak- 
ing hands? [Applause.] 

After the reception at the White House the conniiittee reassembled 
at the rooms of the American Federation of Labor and were called to 
order bv Chairman Gompers at 3.20 o'clock p. m. 

The 'Chairman. Acting in the same spirit by which we are all 
prompted, under the Governments of Great Britain, Canada, and the 
United States, the Dominion Government, at my request has sent two 
representatives in the form of ofHeers of the Canadian labor move- 
ment to give us the benefit of their advice and experience, for, as we 
all know, Canada has given of her very best in aid of the tremendous 
task set before the people of the world. 

Mr. J. C. Waters is president of the Congress of Labor of the 
Dominion of Canada, and I have the great pleasure of presenting 
Mr. Waters to you now. [Ajjplause.] 

Mr. Waters. Mr. Chairman and friends, I can well understand 
that the most of you are looking for an opportunity to express some 
opinion with reference to the problems with which you will be con- 
fronted arising out of the war. Keeping that in mind, I want to 
promise you that my remarks will be both brief and commonplace, 
after listening to the most eloquent, illuminating, and inspiring ad- 
dresses this morning, and anything that I have to offer may seem, as 
has been repeated before, somewhat fiat. But, after all, it may result 
in some little measure of good, because our experiences in Canada 
have been very different from those of our compeers in the British 
Isles. 

I was struck more forcibly than with anything, else with the view 
presented to us by our brothers from across the sea with respect to 
the cooperation of the Government with organized labor. I am only 
too sorry to say that that is not true with respect to the Dominion of 
Canada. I do not know to Avhat extent it will be true with respect to 
organized labor in the United States, but I was struck with the force 
of the remarks uttered by these men from the British Isles, and my 
mind was carried away back over the years to the time when labor 
was struggling for some recognition, and only at the present time, 
because of the war. some measure of the right of manhood, as repre- 
senting the labor movement, is receiving recognition. 

I do^^not knoAv but it may perhaps serve the best purpose were I to 
give vou the position assumed by the Labor Trades Congress of 
Canada. As most of you are aware, the Labor Trades Congress of 
Canada is the same there as the American Federation of Labor in the 
United States. By that I do not mean to say that the congress can 
take the place of "the Am^erican Federation of Labor, because our 
trades-unions are affiliated with the American Federation of Labor, 
and it is as much our federation in Canada as it is to you in the 
United States. But, from a legislative point of view, ^ve nnist have 
a Canadian organization to deal with our Canadian mstitutions. 
That is why the organization was given birth in the Dominion of 



40 BRITISH LABOe's WAE MEySAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

Canada, and it has filled a very effective place in the country. How- 
ever, it is not my idea to tell you what we have accomplislied there, 
but foi' what we have done since the outbreak of the war. 

At the first convention that was held after the outbreak of the war 
we promised to lend evei-y assistance to the allies in order to prevent 
the enemies fi'om being victorious. That statement was made with- 
out qualification at the first conference that was held after the war 
broke out. At the following convention, because of the agitation that 
was set on foot, with a view to conscripting men, the congress, rightly 
or wrongly, opposed conscription. We have maintained that attitude 
throughout. In addition, however, we have made it quite clear to the 
Government that our objection to conscription would be removed, 
provided that the Government wanted to adopt a system of national 
conservation. By national conservation let me explain what I mean 
by that : It means that every man, every woman, irrespective of their 
Avalk in life or their avocation in life, must give their all to the 
nation; that means, that the wealth of the nation must be used as well 
as the man power of the nation. In other words, we have stood for 
conscription of material wealth, since it is far inferior to human 
values. Conscript wealth before you conscript men. Let us use the 
material wealth of the nation in order to win the war before we call 
upon the manhood of the nation to sacrifice what can not be replaced. 
We may replace the wealth, but we can not replace the lives of human 
beings. The material wealth should be used before man power is 
called upon to sacrifice itself. 

The Government undertook to cooperate with us, and we were not 
sent down as representatives of the Government to criticize the Gov- 
ernment; ]>nt I have graduated from that school where we are taught 
to tell the truth, no matter who it hits, no matter who it hurts, as 
long as good can be accomplished. I have no idea of criticizing the 
Government of Canada, and therefore, while I am representing the 
Government I do not mean to come down here and apologize for the 
action of the Government; I do not mean to come dowm hei'o and 
indulge in platitudes; but I wanted to give you the position of the 
congress and, as near as possible, to tell you some of the problems 
with which w-e have had to contend in the Dominion. 

I might say that it almost passes the realization of the ordinary 
man or woman to understand the sacrifice that has been made by the 
manhood of Canada. We have largely an agricultural country; we 
are not an industrial nation such as the United States and Great 
Britain. A large proportion of our people are on the land; w-e have 
a population of less than 8,000,000, and we have already given volun- 
teers to the number of 410,000 out of the small population such as the 
Dominion of Canada happens to be. which indicates thoroughly the 
system for which we have stood has stood the test. I doubt if better 
results could have been achieved if conscription had been put in 
force. 

We offered to cooperate with the Government in an effort to 
bring success to the allies. The "Government, I presume, felt that it 
was quite superior to the aid of organized workers and to a large 
extent we have been ignored. On the other hand, we have a very 
peculiar situation in the Government of Canada. The Imperial 
Government itself has let contracts in the Dominion aggregating 
hundreds of millions of dollars. The Dominion Government prac- 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 41 

tically exercises no control over the conditions of labor under which 
the contracts are being executed for the Imperial Government. We 
have pleaded with the Dominion Government to use its influence 
with the Imperial Government to have the conditions of tiie workers 
safeguarded. To the same extent we have pleaded with the Imperial 
(Tovernment, and I think I have corresponded with my friend, Mr. 
Bowerman, with respect to some measure of protection that sliould 
be safeguarded to the workers in Canada. I have cabled I.loyd- 
(jeorge direct, I liave had the premier of Canada cable to Lloyd- 
George Avith a view to having the munitions board embody in the con- 
tracts some measures safeguarding labor. Up to the present time 
we have been ignored and that is one of the questions we want to 
take up with the British representatives. So much have we been 
ignored that time and again the workers in Canada have been on the 
point of almost bringing about n civil war. to such an extent have 
their interests been ignored by the powers that be. 

That is the line on which I am talking — somewhat different from 
what we have already listened to. Our experience in Canada has 
been altogetlier diii'erent from what it has been in the British Isles 
or what it will be in the United States, but it is just as well you 
shoidd know to what extent we have received the cooperation of our 
governing poM^ers. 

I was struck in listening to our confreres from the British Isles, 
not alone with regard to the coordinating of all the man i)ower and 
the wealth of the nation in order to win the war, but I was struck 
with the problem as to what will result after the war is over. It is 
for you to decide as to how far, or how closely you will follow 
the lead given vou by the United KingdouL It will be for you to 
decide for yourselves whether or not the sacrifices made by labor in 
the British Isles, or whether the concession that has been given to 
labor ai'e at all commensurate with the sacrifice that has been made. 
It will be for you to judge Avhether or not the guaranties given by 
the Government will be fulfilled. It is for you to decide whether or 
not the Goveriunent can do it. These ai-e all questions that must be 
decided by yoiL 

As to your particulai- (Tovernnient — as to what extent you can rely 
on guaranties given by the Government in good faith^ — is another 
([uestion for you to decide. While we are more or less hysterical — 
because people are in such a war as this — we are not able to bring 
that measure of calm judgment and deliberation to the questions 
that would otherwise control us. so that we had bettei- be careful that 
in our welfare we do not give away more than we Avill be able to have 
restored to us without a bitter fight. So nmch so have we been im- 
bued with that imi)i"ession in the Dominion of (\inada that since 
the Government has failed to give us any guaranty we have re- 
fused to make any concessions to the Government. In the Dominion 
to-day we Ji.ave given nothing; and we stand exactly, so far as onr 
trades-union movements are concerned, and we mejin to stay there 
until the Government can give us such, backed up with the power to 
make ^ootl these guai'anties. AVe mean to maintain our rights to 
strike, if necessarv. in order to safeguard the inteivsts of our work- 
ers, by maintaining all the powei- within our organizations and give 
nothiiiL'' unless we have something in retui'ii for it. That is the 
attitude adopted in the Dominion of Canada until the Govern- 



42 BRITISH LABOE^'S WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

merit does give us such guaranties as will cany with it a sufficient 
promise that conditions will be restored to normal when peace again 
"sets in, that we have given nothing awaj'. 

It is for you to decide whether or not what you may give will 
be commensLirate with the guaranty given you, because, after all. 
if w^e judge what will happen from what has happened, we know 
that in the past, after the spirit has been awakened, that is latent 
in anything worthy of being called a human being, after the war 
that spirit of patriotism dies and Ave may as well meet the situa- 
tion as it will present itself to us. We will find that our employers, 
the men who are out to make all they can, will be the same men after 
the war is over that they were before the w^ar broke out. 

I knoAv in the Dominion at the present time so many of our boys 
are coming back crippled, some totally disabled, and it is pathetic to 
see some of the boys on the streets with crutches, some blind, and 
some without arms. It is pathetic in the extreme when you come to 
think of it, and some of those boys who returned can hardly get 
along. The pension is hardly sufficient to sustain them in any- 
thing like comfort. I know when they asked my opinion as to rates 
to be paid totally disabled men I said nothing less than $100 a month. 
They said there is nothing like that in Australia, the United States, 
Great Britain, or an^nvhere else ; that $100 a month w^as exhorbitant. 
I said to some of those members, " Would $100 a month be too much 
for you ? Would it be too much for your boy if he came home 
totally disabled ? Would it be too much for you if you had made a 
sacrifice for your country ? " and they had to admit that it would 
not. Then I said, " In God's name do not say it is too much for the 
men who have gone to the front and come back totally disabled." 

But the Government, to a large extent, is failing to take care of 
the men returning from the front. As time goes on the patriotism of 
the employers, who are now looking for the men who are coming 
from the front, will be looking for the cheapest men. Irrespective 
of what he has done for the country, they will be looking for the 
cheapest labor. I may be treading on the grounds of some of the 
manufacturers here, but, after all, it is not a place to put on any 
mask. This is the place where we ought to tell the truth, and I hope 
that will be the spirit that will characterize the deliberations of this 
assembly. My experience has taught me that the employer who only 
views things from his selfish point of view, as we all do, will be 
dominated by that, and it is just as well that we should prepare for 
what is coming ; and I hope, in outlining your best eiforts to triumph 
over the enemy, you will also cast around to find means by which to 
take care of the United States and make it worth living in after we 
shall have enjoyed peace once again. 

I suppose questions will be asked relative to these points, and I 
will be glad to give all the information I can with respect to condi- 
tions in Canada. I want to say, in closing, I feel very intensely in 
this matter. I do not know that there has been a man more out- 
spoken in the Dominion of Canada in favor of the establishment of 
internationl peace. I am a man of peace. I love peace. I was 
almost a w^orshiper, to the exclusion of everything else, at the shrine 
of peace. It was the one idea I had, that we may establish such 
conditions of humanity that peace could be enjoyed by the world. 
I stand for peace and the labor movement itself stands for peace. 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 43 

We ail hope that tlie time is not far distant when peace will be 
restored. I hope that Ave will lose no opportunity to find a way by 
which we can rehabilitate the world. Do not let us be carried away 
by our enthusiasm, by a spirit of patriotism. Do not let that blind 
us and our judgment to the fact that even our enemies, perhaps, if 
we meet them around the council table, as we have often told our 
employers, " If you will discuss this around the board there is no 
necessity for a strike, and we will try to find some common ground 
for settlement;*' and even with our enemies at the present day, when 
the opportunity presents itself, I think we shall be only too ready 
to meet them around the council board and see if peace can not be 
established permanently. I stand for the interests of peace, and 
because I feel so strongly on that is because some of my nearest 
relatives have paid the human price. One brother was speaking 
about the Highland Scotch away back in 1914: when they tried to 
stop the onrush of the Germans. I had three nephews who made the 
supreme sacrifice in the Highland Brigade at that time. I have had 
two nephews return from the front, recovered, and they are back. 
I had one sister, the mother of all these boys at the front — and per- 
haps you can understand what it is to be a mother to know that death 
is staring her boys in the face every day, and Avhen it is brought home 
to you I think perhaps you will let us use CA^ery effort in the world to 
bring about peace in the world, and after it has been brought about 
I want to sa3^ judging the future from the past, we want to extend 
the hand of friendship to our enemies, because our enemies in the 
past are our allies of the future. Our enemies of to-day may be our 
allies in the future for peace. So, let us recognize our enemies to- 
day as our brothers of to-morrow, and, I think, if we enter the war in 
that spirit we will conquer a thousandfold more than if we go on 
with that spirit that we will avenge. Do not let us avenge any- 
thing, because vengeance, as a rule, comes back on the man who 
undertakes vengeance. We must be with our enemies, we hope to 
make them our friends of to-morrow, we hope to make them our 
brother working for the common uplift of human brotherhood. 
[Applause.] 

The Chair3IAn. In addition, the Government of Canada has 
delegated Mr. Giddeon D. Robertson, vice president of the National 
Association of Railway Telegraphers, to confer with us and give us 
the benefit of his advice. I now have the pleasure of presenting to 
you Mr. Robertson. [Applause.] 

Mr. Robertson. Mr. President, ladies, and gentlemen, the request 
from our Government to attend this meeting carried with it no 
instructions or credentials beyond the fact that we had been invited 
to attend and that we should come. I had little knoAvledge of Avhat 
the purposes of the congresses were, but I judge that the fundamental 
object Avas to discuss together Avays and means to successfully and 
economically and promptly do the best possible to assist in the jn-ose- 
cution of the present war. 

As Mr. Waters, my colleague from Canada, has said, the people 
residing in the land of the maple leaf are lovers of peace and 
ardentlv desire that peace should ahvays continue. Many have in- 
deed felt that anything else Avas a practical impossibility, in view 
of the century that has just rolled around in Avhich Ave have enjoyed 
peace. Nevertheless, nearly three years ago Avar came ujion our 



44 BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAlSI LABOR, 

country, and our people have responded under the volunteer system, 
I think, quite ^enerduslv. Although we have a large area of country, 
we have a population of less than 8.000,000 people, or someAvhat simi- 
lar to that of Greater New York. You can realize that practically 
one-half million men have laid down their ordinary vocations and 
have taken up arms and gone overseas to assist in the prosecution of 
this war in the interests of civilization and humanity's future, and 
that their places have been filled to a very large degree by the women 
of our country, over 300,000 of whom are now engaged in the manu- 
facture of munitions and in clerical capacities in banks, stores, and 
so on, holding positions formerly occupied by our men. In the agsfi-e- 
gate. approximatelv 700,000. or one-tenth — not of oui' able-bodied 
men and women, but one-tenth of our total population — are actually 
engaged in assisting to prosecute this war as best they can. Many 
thousands of those'Avill never return. Many thousands more have 
retui-ned, and are still returning, maimed, in many instances for life. 
On one street in one of our cities less than a week ago I heard a 
gentleman say that he met 21 men within six blocks who were minus 
either a leg or an arm. I make that statement to you in order that 
you may realize, as we do, the serious side of the war. 

Turning briefly to the experience of the organizations with which I 
am more closely affiliated, namely, those engaged in the railroad and 
transportation service of our country, our experience has been some- 
what different from that of the organizations with which Mr. Waters, 
my confrere from Canada, is more closely connected. It is true that 
shortly after the outbreak of the war some attempts were made by 
certain of our railroads, in view of what they termed hard times and 
falling traffic, to reduce wages. However, by cooperative action of 
the employees concerned and b}^ the assistance and timely interfer- 
ence of some of the ministers of our Government, no reduction in 
wages took place, and it is a fact that in not a single instance, so far 
as railway service is concerned, with which I am connected, have the 
conditions in any way deteriorated, and in many instances, especially 
during the last 12 months, since the cost of living has risen so rapidly, 
considerable relief in the way of improved conditions and increases 
in wages have been secured. 

There is one particular thing I desire briefl}^ to call to your atten- 
tion which has, during the past 12 months, caused considerable alarm 
and is to-day perhaps the most alarming situation with which the 
Canadian people have to deal, and a matter in which I believe the 
common peo]:)lc of the United States are now and probably ere long 
will be much more deeply interested in than you are even to-day. 
In 1914, when war broke out. it took $1.37 to purchase the quantity 
of goods that $1 would procure in the year 1900. or an increase of 37 
per cent in that length of time. In 1916, three years later, that had 
risen almost another 50 points, and within the last 12 months has 
risen another 50 points, and tliere is no sign of the end as yet. To- 
day it takes $2.20 to purchase what $1 would procure a few years ago 
in our country in the way of requirements to live. Not only our 
working people but our business people are becoming alarmed and 
urging our Government to find ways and means of stopping this con- 
dition of affairs, and something must be done and shall be done. 
Many are saying, both on the public platform and through our press, 
without regard to political affiliation so far as the press is concerned. 



P.RITISir LABORS WAK MKSSACiE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 45 

there is a demand arising from the people of Canada that our (Toverii- 
ment shall take hold of that question and shall, if necessary, take 
charge of the distrihution of food and the fixing of prices of the 
staple articles of food which every person must have. 

I can say to you. T feel sure without fear of successful contradic- 
tion, that the abnormal rise in the cost of staple articles of food that 
have brought the pinch of want to many of our people has had more 
to do than any other one thing with the slackening up of the volun- 
teer enlistment of our men. I feel strong upon this subject and have 
been recently paying some particular attention to it and intend in 
the future to do all that I can to urge upon our (lovernnient to take 
this matter in hand, because only by so doing and by bringing some 
relief are they going to be al)le to restore the confidence and have the 
complete sympathy of the })eople in the further conduct and prosecu- 
tion of the war. We all realize that foodstuffs are rexjuired and 
needed badly in the mother country and to feed the army. But when 
we realize that foodstuffs are being purchased at one price to-day in 
one town and sold to-morrow, the sauie goods, at perhaps an ad^ anco 
of 40 to 50 per cent to the consumer in the same town, I can show you 
that something is wrong with our system. I notice in this morn- 
ing's press here — I think the Washington Post — that there seems to 
be an unrest of a similar natur.' existing amoug the people of the 
United States. 

If there is anything that the Canadian labor can do to cooperate 
with the labor movement in the United States with a common view of 
endeavoring to bring about some relief froui this situation I can 
assure you that you Avill have the hearty support of every man who 
works for wages or eats bread in our country. 

I realize that you have many very important matters to discuss 
here to-day, and I feel it would be unbecoming for me to take u]) 
your time further than to say that if at any time in the future it 
seems, in the mind of the president. Mr. Gompers, that the repre- 
sentatives from the Canadian labor movement here can be of any 
assistance to you, if we can in any Avay cooperate with you so that it 
will be of mutual assistance in the cause in which we are engaged, it 
will be a pbasing privilege to meet with you at any time you uiay 
desire. 

I thank you. [Applause.] 

The CiiAiRMAx. 5rr. Thomas has an important engagement re- 
• juiring him to leave here at 4.45 p. m., and he suggests if there are 
any questions to be asked of him, that they be asked now, so that he 
may be in position to answer them and yet fill his engagement. 
Therefore, if there is any lady or gentleman who desires to ask 
questions of Mr. Thomas, please do so now. I will recognize any 
lady or gentleman Avho desires to ask a question. 

Dr. N. I. Stoxe. T woidd like to ask a question as to what steps 
have been taken and what methods have been worked out to adjust 
wao-e disputes in the case of differences between employers and em- 
[•loyees. and to keep the work going without strikes and yet satisfy 
rhe enq^loyees in the way of adjustment. 

Mr. Thomas. Involyed in that is the statement of our friend from 
Canada, and accepting his yery wise dictum that we should talk 
plain to each other, I am quite" sure he will be delighted if I start 
off to follow that example because, after all, as a matter of fact, if 



46 BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

you will allow me to say, I have been the stormy petrel of Parliament 
I'or about two years and six months, and no one has criticized more 
ministries than myself, so I can talk with freedom about this matter. 
But do let us first come to fundamental principles, one of w^liich is 
this, that if you have a bad government you must be a bad people, 
because your government, under any democratic state, is only a reflex 
of the intelligence, the desires, and the aspirations of the people. 
[Applause.] Therefore, nothing irritates me more and nothing pulls 
me right up against ni}^ own people more than mere excuses for 
their own ignorance and their own inactivity. If the workers of the 
world desire a change in government, the remedy is always in their 
own hands, and God knows when we talk of war I know" what it 
means. I left a wife and five little children, and five days after I 
was on the water my eldest boy reached his eighteenth birthday, and 
automatically he becomes a soldier on that day. I w^as not enabled 
to see him, but I can picture my own wife, with my running the risk 
of submarines and my eldest boy going to the firing line, so I do not 
want any reminder of the hell of the business. But Ave are entitled 
to answer why we will not make peace at this moment. We are en- 
titled to answer it and we are entitled to let the people of the United 
States understand just our feelings on this matter, because a little 
history on this is Aery necessary. 

Since the Franco-German War, any student of history must knoAv 
that Germany has lived on a crest of military success. Whatever 
may be said about the German Kaiser, he has to those people been a 
good King, that is to say, he has been a successful King. Their 
people have prospered, their industries have developed, and they 
have all developed with militarism rampant in Germany and, there- 
fore, you can quite understand the German people feeling that their 
method, the military method, the military caste, the military ma- 
chine, is essential, and when, after two and one-half years of war, 
they point to the man and say, " We own Poland ; we are in possession 
of Belgium, we are in possession of Serbia ; half of France is now in 
the hands of German}^ ; Russia wiped out," can you conceive, friends, 
that it is only picturing a map of that kind to say to the poor, igno- 
rant people, "Here is the triumph of our system, the military 
system " ? 

The submarine warfare, the outrage on women, the crucifixion of 
Canadian soldiers, the photographs of which I saAV sent home, the 
first Canadian soldier to be crucified, those appeals do not appeal 
to them because they have been successful. Therefore what we feel 
is that the only way to have a lasting peace is to show to these people 
that this military machine can not possibly triumph. [Applause.] 
In other Avords, you have to overcome in the eyes of these people the 
machine that apparently to them is successful, and Avhen that ma- 
chine is broken they themselves Avill be able to see for themselves 
exactly the situation. In other words, it is useless for us to talk 
about deposing the Kaiser. Any form of government in order to 
be successful must only be in accordance Avith the aspirations of the 
]jeople, and Ave Avant to remo^■e Avhat after all is to us a horrible night- 
mare — that the policy of might shall triumph over right. We have 
got to vindicate that right and justice shall prevail, eA^en if the 
lieaA^ens fall. [Applause.] 



BRITISH LABOe/s WAE MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 47 

'J'hat is why we will welcome a peace to-morrow. God knows 
there would be a responsibility on the shoulders of any man who 
Avould prolong this war for one moment longer than was necessary 
We do not want to prolong it, but we do not want to have a repetition 
of this war. We do not want to leave the Germans to have another 
war. We do not want to feel that the lives that have already been 
sacrificed have been sacrificed in vain. It is because of those things, 
peace men as we are. anxious for peace, Avith no spirit of revenge in 
our liearts, we believe that we can only triumph, as I have said before 
by crushing this machine. 

Having said that, also let me speak about the reconstruction. 
Only a fool would attempt to prophesy on the position of this world 
when the war is over. Treaties, economic positions, and the more 
one studies the more ignorant one becomes of the whole situation. 
It is simply after attempting to study that one can conceive the 
situation. But I agree that it is the duty of the State. On the other 
side we ha^e ajipointed a cabinet committee, called the reconstruction 
committee, and our i)rimary object is. as far as one can gauge the 
situation, to anticipate. No one. as I said before, can say that this 
is going to hapi^en or that is going to happen, but we can only antici- 
pate, and the first thing we are doing is this: We are not going to 
allow demobilization to take place and allow millions of men to 
come out of the Army on Saturday and find themselves struggling 
for a job at the dock gates on Monday morning. [Applause.] We 
will not allow that, and find these men asking themselves, " Is this 
what I have been fighting for for two and one-half years?" That 
is the kind of thing that will provide the germ of revolution, and 
we are getting over it and agreeing. It is not a laboi- point of view 
alone. There is an agreement with the reconstruction committee, 
charged, as we are, with covenant responsibility, that the ratio of 
demoblization shall only be in accordance with the condition of the 
labor market whereby those coming out of the colors can be absorbed 
in industry and by that means prevent unemployment taking place. 
I Applause.] 

As I have to answer questions, I do not want to make another 
speech. In regard to the pensions, there is also this answer. Of 
course, following the Crimean war we read with shame, and admit it 
to-day, of Crimean heroes finding resting places in a pauper's grave. 
We found the men who were the heroes of Mafeking and South 
Africa, with medals on their breasts, eking out existence by selling 
matches on the streets, and we, as a labor party, made that the first 
plank in our program, and we said that those Avho are fighting the 
nation's battles shall be made the nation's charge, and Ave Avent be- 
yond that, and I Avill giAe you an illustration of Avhat I mean. 
Charles BoAverman is a goods guard; that is, a guard on a train, 
Avorking for the English raihvay company. His Avages are ;')0 shil- 
lings a Aveek. The railAvay company said, "When you come^ back 
from the war Ave will give you your job and your wage." Tafor- 
tunately, he has lost a leg in the war. He comes back and the State 
pension for the loss of one limb is 15 shillings per Aveek. The rail- 
Avav company says. " With one leg, BoAverman can not possibly act 
as a goods guard, but he can haAe a ticket collector's job; but the rate 
for a ticket collector is 25 shillings. He gets 15 shillings per week 



48 BRTTTSH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

ptnsion and by our giving him another 15 shillings that will be 
exactlj^ the same Avage as he got before, 30 shillings.'' But the status 
of the ticket collector's job is reduced from 25 to 15 shillings. Now, 
you see the point. That is the earliest proposition I was faced with, 
and I immediately declared on behalf of my union that we would 
stop the first time the standard was reduced to the man who had 
sacrificed a limb in defense of his country. In other words, the 
pension he received was for services already rendered, and we have 
got a guaranty now, already in operation, that regardless of any 
pension that a man enjoys, he gets the standard rate for the job 
and his pension is independent and not considered b}^ the (Tovern- 
nient [applause]. If that is not in operation in Canada, then it is 
not for us to denounce the Government, but it is for labor itself ti> 
see that it is in operation. [Applause.] 

Mr. Waters. May I say that it is? 

Mr. Thomas. Then there is no cause for complaint, because I am 
sure that there is no difference of opinion, and the moral that I want 
to draw is about the same thing after the w' ar. 

I may be wrong, but I believe as true as I am standing here that 
there is going to be a better spirit in spite of what people have said. 
You can not have men going through three winters in the trenches, 
sharing the hard biscuit and the bull beef, some who have come from 
the slums and some who have come from the farms, some who have 
been educated in the university and others who can not write their 
own names; you can not find those men sharing the common danger, 
sharing the common fare, seeing each other in a different light, in 
a different spirit from which they ever saw each other before, but 
that both sides benefit from the experience. [Applause.] If they do 
not benefit from the experience, so much the worse for both of them: 
but in any case labor will be making a mistake if it does any other 
thing than rely upon the strength of its own right hand. In con- 
nection with this God knows our task is easier. Mr. Gompers's great 
head to-da,y can look back and visualize not the time when labor was 
the hero, not the time when to-day I. as a public man, or as a labor 
leader, can be welcomed in any drawing room or society in my own 
country — that has not been brought about by the mere assumption 
that it is a day's work, that has been brought about by years and 
}ears of sacrifice of those who have passed away, of those Avho have 
created the platform that we now enjoy. And have we less courage 
and have we less morals, have we less stamina, in iissuming that 
even if these difficulties" occur, we ha\e not the courage to take our 
stand and fight our cause? I would prefer to take my stand and 
fight the corner with the knowledge that I had done my bit than 
with a feeling that I stood aside when the fate of democi-acy was in 
the balance. [Applause.] 

Now, sir, with regard to the (question about how^ disputes were 
settled. No machinery of any kind can settle all disputes. No 
machinery that any (xovernment Avill evei' introduce will entirely ob- 
literate trade disputes. Please rememb?r that the strike weapon is 
labor's only bargaining powei'. Take the strike away, and labor 
would be helpless. The English bulldog will growl at you, and you 
will be disturbed by his gi-owl, biit if you know that his teeth are 
extracted his groAvl will not disturb you very much. You have 
heard the stoi-v of the boy who was trembling, and somebody said. 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 49 

^' What are you trembling for, ladf' He said : " 1 am afraid of that 
dog.' "Oh," the man said, ''don't worry; the dog is shakin«r his 
tad." " \es, sir," he said, ''but it is not that end I am afraid^ of " 
And the same thing applies to labor. If labor loses the power of 
strike it loses its only bargaining power. 15ut. on the other hand, 
the strike should be made the last and not the first resort. The 
strike is a two-edged wea])on which should always be the determin- 
ing factor in the background. Therefore we "set up arbitration 
courts, conciliation boards, and a connnittse called the conunittee on 
production, and the functions of those bodies, which were independ- 
ent of employer or employee, were to hear as speedily as possible all 
disputes and give an immediate decision. Now, this other danger 
operated. Supposing the machinist applied for an increase in wage 
in order to meet the increased cost of living. The emplover savs. 
'' We will ignore that application," the power to strike having been 
taken clearly away. That is the lever the employer can use over the 
man. But this act provided that if the' employer, within a period 
of 14 days, refused either to concede the demand or reply to the 
application the trade-union has the power to declare a dispute within 
the meaning of the act, and it automatically is referred to arbi- 
tration. There Avere thousands of cases of arl)itration and conseijuent 
delay. Pressure was apjilied from the labor forces with a view of 
supplementing these arbitrati(m boards. That is now being done, 
and it is true to say that there has been since the commencement of 
the war no large industrial dispute of any magnitude. There have 
been many minor disputes; I have been told, and 1 regret to say that 
I believe there is a dispute at this moment that has happened since 
we left. I do not know what the nature of it is and therefore, nat- 
urally, can not express an opinion. 

The Chairman. Mr. Thomas. I am just informed by the reporter 
of one of our NeAv York newspapers that a strike is on to-day, caused 
by the fatigue of the workers. 

Mr. Thomas. Of course I ha^e already explained to your cabinet 
and to your various committees that one of the mistakes that we made 
in the w^ar is to forget the human side. If you are going to have a 
long war nothing is more fatal than to start to exhaust your men and 
women at this stage. Xothing is more disastrous, because in health 
and physique it is bad, it is economically unsound, and it is ruinous 
to the future of your race. When I tell you that our men and some 
of our women were working 100 and 110 and 120 hours per week, 
for week after week and month after mcmtli, and bank holidays were 
.'■acrificed, it will give you some idea of the fatigue with the result that 
we have reached a stage where our men and women are really tired, 
and anyone with any knowledge of trade disputes knows pei'fectly 
well that nothing makes it more difficult to settle a dispute than when 
your men and women are really tired and jaded. That is the natural, 
inevitable tendency in human nature, and all I can say is that taking 
the thing as a whol ' we have been ]ieculiarly and happily free from 
trade disputes, and. on the other hand, there has been a genuine de- 
sire on the part of the (Tovernment and on the part of employers in 
general to recognize the abnormal increase in the cost of living, and 
that has been met in the way I ha\e indicated, by the arbitration 
boards. [Applause.] 

S. Doc. 84, 65-1 4 



50 BRITISH LABOR S WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

Miss Beeks. Mr. Thomas, some of our committees are anxious to 
know many things from you, and I will state three questions very 
briefly: One, on the question of hours. We understand you have 
been working a good deal seven days a week. x\.re women working 
seven days a week now? Also, are men working seven days a week, 
and, if so, how many hours? 

Wliat is the best method of educating women ? We understand in 
Great Britain you have sent women to the technical schools first and 
then into the shop, whereas in France they have placed them under 
skilled foremen immediately in the shop. Some of our employers 
here to-day feel that that is the better plan, and we would be glad to 
hear from you about that. I do not think you have told us the 
method of paying the subsistence to the dependents of the sailors and 
soldiers. 

Mr. Thomas. With regard to the hours, seven days was common 
with men and women ; not only seven days per week, but it was seven 
days of 12, 13, and 14 hours per day, and an abnormal amount of 
Sunday labor. Our trades-unions, from general observation, became 
alarmed. The Government sent up a committee of inquiry, composed 
of employers, trade-union representatives, and Government officials, 
and they unanimously came to the conclusion and have made a recom- 
mendation that in their judgment nothing is more disastrous, not 
only to the health of the men and women but to the successful prose- 
cution of the war, than these abnormally long hours, both for men 
and women. They have now practically abandoned all Sunday labor, 
and, as far as possible, they are abandoning woman labor. But it is 
only true to say, from both sides of the picture, that a tremendous 
pressure was applied at a time when explosives, guns, and every- 
thing were essential at the moment. We have now been able to take 
another view, because we are out of that immediate difficulty. But 
that is the position so far as men, women, and ourselves are con- 
cerned. 

So far as the training of women is concerned, we have adopted 
both methods for men and women. Classes were instituted at various 
technical schools, situated in all parts of the country, and invitations 
were extended to men and to women to come and attend these classes, 
and they were trained peculiarly in the branch of industry in which 
their work was most essential. On the other hand, skilled men in the 
factories were appointed and elected to groups of men and groups 
of unskilled men and trained in that way. But I believe it is true to 
say that the most capable return has been brought about by the in- 
struction given at the technical classes. 

Now, with regard to the dependents. When the war commenced 
our soldiers' pay and separation allowance was based upon what is 
called the old standard of the army. It was miserably inadequate. 
The soldier was paid a shilling per day. and there was a separate 
allowance of 7 shillings and 6 pence to the wife and 2 shillings and 6 
pence to the child. I here want to explain the labor out in the old 
countr3^ We have a political as well as an industrial machine, and 
I am a Member of the Parliament, but- 1 am also a member of the 
trades-union. We have 40 members in Parliament who work as part 
of and in conjunction with the trades-union movement, and therefore 
we sometimes apply both. If we find the political machine is best 
to enable us to secure what we are after, we use it, and if we feel 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 51 

the industrial machine is best, we use that, and sometimes, and prob- 
abl}' most often, we use both. But, at all events, wiiat we did was 
that every time we were asking for recruits and addressing-, recruit- 
ing meetings we said, "We are going to stand by you in demandiuL^ 
better treatment for you, for yourselves, your wives, and families.*^' 
The result was that the first step taken increased the wife's allow- 
ance from 7 shillings G pence to 10 shillings 6 pence and the children's 
allowance from 2 shillings 6 pence to 3 shillings 6 pence for the first 
child and 3 shillings for the others. That is per week. In addi- 
tion to that, we found this, that there Avas many a young man who 
had a widowed mother, who had a sister, who may have been the 
sole nuiintenance of the family : and therefore we agitated and 
secured, within the category of dependents, either father, mother, 
brothers, or sisters, as long as it could be proved that they were de- 
pendent upon an individual who had enlisted. Therefore, when I 
now talk about depentlents, we brought all of those within the cate- 
gory I have mentioned if it can be jn-oved that they were dependent 
upon the man who enlisted. 

The disablement allowance was again a miserable allowance, de- 
pendent upon what is called the chancellor commissioners. AVe 
always took the view that that was another form of charity, and 
nothing was more monstrous than to make men who risked their 
liA'es, who may have lost a limb, to come back every six months and 
appear before a body of old gentlemen, when the first thing they 
would ask would be, " Have you a piano in the house? If you have, 
you want to sell it, as there is no need of a piano." You need not 
ask me to go into detail as to the kind of inquisition that took place. 
We have that entirely removed now. 

We have a pension board set up whereby a body, free entirely 
from charitable organization, now sit and determine a pension 
and the disablement allowance for the loss of a limb, partially or 
permanent, has gone from a maximum of 14 shillings to a maximum 
of 38 shillings to-day, and a minimum of 15 shillings. The wife 
separation allowance is also increased and made 12 shillings 6 pence 
for herself, 5 shillings for the first child, and 4 shillings for the 
second. We do not think that is yet adequate. We are still agitating 
for more, because we believe that those men who are fighting our 
l)attles ought to be free from any worry whate^'er as to how^ their 
wives and families Avere faring Avhile they were fighting. What Ave 
do pride oursehes on is this, that the Avhole of the money Avas paid 
through the post office. That is Avhat Ave Avant to urge upon you. 
There is no difficulty, no waiting and taking your turn. Our soldiers' 
wiA^es or mothers, or Avhoever they may be, go to the post office Avith 
a demand note, and that is paid over the counter, just the same as if 
they handed in a check and they receive the money for it. We have 
attached considerable imi)ortance to that, and with the greatest 
modesty in the world Ave commend it to you. ] Applause.] 

I am just reminded, as a matter of fact, that one of our own laI)or 
men is the chief pensions minister. 

Mr. Abraham Greenstetn. I Avould like to be enlightened on the 
effect that the war had on the process of oi-ganizing labor wliii-h 
Avas not organized previous to the Avar. Was it stoi)ped ( 

Mr. Thomas. The answer is that at this moment Ave are over a 
million stronefer in trade-unionists than Ave Avere Avhen the Avar broke 



-52 BRITISH LABOR S WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

out. My own union is 122,000 stronger than wlien the war broke 
out. The total accumulated funds of the trades-unions of last year's 
balance sheet shows an increase of over $8,000,000 more than when 
the war broke out. When women came into industry we thought 
it was not only our dutj^ to protect them, but that it was the duty 
for them to protect themselves, and we opened up our ranks. We 
have in my own organization, where our rules excluded women, 
50,000 women at this moment working as comrades with the men. 
which is the guaranty of protecting both of us. [Applause.] 

The Chairman. You have mentioned the increase in the mem- 
bership of your trades-unions. If my memory serves me right, you 
informed the Council of National Defense that there were over 
100,000 members of your organization who enlisted, and that this 
increased membership is in spite of that. 
Mr. Thomas. Independent; yes. 

Mr. Frankel. As Mr. Thomas will readily understand, the ex- 
ecutive committee of this committee of labor is very deeply con- 
cerned in this question of the care of dependents of enlisted men. 
There is a very strong sentiment in the United States, among many 
thinking men and women, that pro])er provision should be made by 
the Government for the care of dependents, and that they should 
not be left to voluntary charitable effort. It is our understanding, 
however, that both in England and in Canada govei-nraental aid 
lias been supplemented by private aid; that in England there is a 
national fund, and, of course, as you know, in Canada the ]:)atriotic 
fund which supplements the separation allowance made to families. 
1 think it would be of great benefit to this committee in determining 
its future action to hear from you just to what extent this supple- 
mental aid has been given and in particular of the administrative 
machiner}^ that has been used for its distribution and the results 
that have been obtained through this machinery. 

Mr. Thomas. Starting at once with the agreement that anything 
to our soldiers' wives and dependents shoulcl be given as a right 
and not as a charity, you quite understand the distinction, and sub- 
ject to that one qualification I say that the additional aid to our 
women and their dependents has been invaluable. You can quite 
understand that there are man}' hundreds of thousands of women 
who do not really understand what they are entitled to: they are 
illiterate, ignorant, and nothing has been more beautiful than to 
see the voluntary effort of men and women of all classes who have 
felt it was their bounden duty to go about and see the women, visit 
them, and to insist first that they were having their rights from the 
Government; then, in addition to that, these voluntary funds were 
used to supplement that. You will know that there will be occasions 
when more attention and care coidd and should be brought into the 
liouse to a woman. These women visitors very tactfully have seen 
the situation, and they have immediately taken upon themselves 
the responsibility of seeing that the necessai-y requirements were 
l)rought into the house. They have sometimes seen children turn 
sick, and, with the danger, perhaps, of infection being spread in the 
liouse, they have taken the responsibility of either sending a nurse 
or separating the children, and all the time trying to impress upon 
these people that it was not in the form of a charity. The varying 
conditions of house rent in industrial rural centers were such that 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 53 

the separation allowance would not be so valuable in some districts 
as in others. They have been enabled to increase the amount so 
much per week in order to meet the increased cost of rent in one 
locality as compared witli another. All of tliose things have been 
done supplemental, in addition to which there has been set up a civil 
liabilities committee. For instance, it was found that men with 
incomes of £400. i::)00, and £()00 a year were crii)pled — men who 
had a couple of scms or daughters at a public school. Our public 
school is not like yours. We mean by our public schools the higher 
type of schools which you call the colleges. jSIen and women mav 
liave sons and daughters at tliese public schools, and to find them- 
selves rushed into the army, unable to meet the school necessities, 
Avas ruinous to the future of the boys and girls. Again, indus- 
trious men have borrowed money and Avere struggling to biiv a 
house, and from their separation and army pay they could not meet 
that: but the result was that the civil liabilities conmiittee was 
enabled to pay school fees, insurance, mortgages, or any other charge 
that was on the family connected with the Avar, their maximum 
being £104 per annum : that is, £2 per w^eek, in addition to and 
supplementary to everything else that I have described. 

The anxiety to remove any question of favoritism was also upj^er- 
most, with the i-esult that when the committee meet to determine this,, 
they simply haA^e before them a schedule, a tabulated statement, giv- 
ing the whole of the details, and they do not know Mary Smith from 
John Bi'ow^n, and therefore the judgment is given always upon the 
facts as presented to them, and there is no fear of favoritism or bias 
in any case. 

The other committees I told you of are set up in every district and 
toAvn : they are composed of all sections of the people; labor is repre- 
sented, capital represented, various institutions represented, and by^ 
.statutory provision there is the inclusion of women by law ; that is to 
say, women must be included as a condition of the act, because, after 
all, as sensible men. you will realize the obvious aid of women's help 
in matters of this kind, in seeing women and dependents and sol- 
diers' wives, and that has been recognized from the commencement. 
As I say. starting off w^ith the fundamental principle that we want 
our soldiers' and sailors' wiA^es paid as a right and not as a charity, 
all this additional and supplemental work has had a magnificent 
effect in our country. On the committees I may say that labor again,. 
1)y provision, is assured of one-fifth of the representation. 

Mr. Frankel. And all this supplemental work has not been looked 
upon as charity? 

Mr. Thoisias. No : it is State money. There are also many kinds of 
organizations, as you can quite readily understand, which are local. 
For instance, in niany of these little Adllages where there are perhaps 
a dozen or two men, eveiyone knows them, and you can quite con- 
ceive the interest there is in this kind of thing. Much of that kind of 
Avoi-k is done, but what I have told you is provided for by State 
funds. 

Mr. Athekton. T Avould like to ask the gentleman a question in 
reference to the protection of the Avorkers in the factories. In some 
of our industrial States the accidents run from 100.000 per year in 
some States to three or four hundred thousand in others, the total 
disabilitv runninof from three or four thousand in some States to as 



54 BRITISH LABOE S WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

high as 8,000 or 10,000 in others. Wliat has England done to pre- 
vent those accidents, and has the inspection been increased with the 
introduction of female or inexperienced help ? 

Mr. Thomas. No. For instance, the mortality 3^011 have mentioned 
I can give you right off. In some of our trades in our country the 
mortality is 1 in 19 killed and injured. You can not beat that even in 
the United States, because I have examined your figures. There- 
fore, there are .two forms of inspection. There is inspection by the 
railway regulations act, there is inspection by the- home office, mines 
and factory inspectors, and it is true to say that not only has the 
inspection and supervision not been decreased, but it has been in- 
creased because of the greater danger of less experienced people com- 
ing into the workshops. Curiously enough, except for lighting, the 
accident mortality in practically all streets is less than prewar, the 
only exception being due to street accidents, and that, as you will 
unclerstancl, is due to the fact that immediately it becomes dark at 
night all lamps on the streets and in shops and residences are put out, 
and it is a question of w^hether we do not kill more of our people by 
not having the lights than through, the fear of the Zeps. 

Miss Wald. Mr. Chairman, I should like to ask Mr. Thomas 
whether there has been any attempt in England to suspend the pro- 
tective, educational, and labor laws affecting children, and if there 
was, what Avas the result there? 

Mr. Thomas. There were many attempts, and the very wise people 
declared at the onset that all children should be sent into the fields, 
the factories, and such like. But, fortunately for us, they were the 
same people who were not very keen on child protection or even 
woman protection before the war, and, therefore, their arguments 
were soon suspended. But it is not true to say that there has been any 
general attempt to interfere with the legislation, but there has been 
and is, and there are many local efforts whereby on holidays and such 
like children have been used in the fields, and that is not to their 
disadvantage. 

The educational standard was taken up, but last year there was a 
very clever organization of children of 13 and 14, who were asked, 
ancl volunteered, and encouraged b}^ their own teachers to do all 
kinds of useful work in the harvesting during the school holidays. 
But there has not been any general tendency to relaxation so far as 
the children are concernecl. We have not quite reached that stage, 
because we have endeavored to keep clearly in mind that the children 
of to-day are the citizens of the future, and that the war would be 
lost to all practical purposes if posterity is to suffer in that par- 
ticular. [Applause.] 

Dr. Meeker. I would like to have a brief description of the equal 
pay for equal work, and I would like to have that brought out, as to 
how the difficulty of the question was dealt with where women were 
introduced to do part of a job that was formerly done by a skilled 
worker. I think that would be interesting information. 

Mr. Thomas. There are two points in that which you have to keep 
in mind ; that is, piece rates and day rates. It is a very simple matter 
to say that I will pay jou a penny for every .sheet of paper you pro- 
duce, and it is quite immaterial whether a man or woman produces it, 
because it is paid on results and you can quite see that when we are 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 55 

talking of piece rates it Avas much easier to determine that principle 
than it was with day rates, because piece rates are ()l)viously paid 
on results, and in the skill and efficiency of a woman— which iii some 
cases, incidentiilly, enable them to earn more than some men— the 
employer or no one else suffers. Therefore, that is a shoit answer so 
far as the piece rates are concerned. 

When we come to day rates it is clearly obvious that in some of 
the industries which women came into, their physical condition and 
their natural incapacity prevented them from being- as efficient as 
men. In the cotton indiLstries they were quite e(iual. Let me give yon 
an illustration. Take the illustration of the shell fillers: that occu- 
pation was put on piece rates. But let me take a better illustration, 
that of applying them to the railroads. They could act as ticket col- 
lectors, as porters, as goods guards, and various other things. There 
the agreement was that wherever they were employed they received 
the minimum rate of the men, that is, the principle being that all our 
rates, practically in every trade and industry, are on a graduated 
basis, the first year so much, second year so much, and so on. By 
establishing the minimum rate for the women, in starting this gave 
them an opportunity of showing the efficiency to the period when they 
became entitled to an increment, the increment being either G months 
or 12. so that we set out the minimum standard first for women, so 
that no employer, either after the war or now, would be able to use 
female labor because it was cheaper than male labor. In other words, 
we wanted to protect the standard of male labor. We did that and 
the increments were based upon the cases as they arose, in addition 
to which the (xovernment. through the munitions department itself, 
fixed a minimum wage for women, and that minimum ought to be ob- 
ser\'ed in every munitions factory where women are employed. 

Dr. Meeker. You have not described the more important thing, 
where it was necessary to divide jobs into component parts, in order 
to bring unskilled labor, men or women, to do work more especially 
done by skilled men alone. 

Mr. Thoimas. As I say, I know of no illustration Avhere that did not 
operate in piece rates. In all industries in which they were brought 
in to do that highly skilled work, for instance, some of the shells 
and some of the very, very important and highly skilled work was, 
after the training tliat I have already described, performed by 
women. But in all this outside semiskilled work, in all skilled work 
in which women were engaged, they were engaged at piece rates and 
not day rates. 

Mr. Baixe. At different times Avhere the men and women w^ere 
required to work overtime, did they receive any extra compensation? 

Mr. Thomas. Yes. Whatever Ave had in operation, what is called 
a district rate. A district rate means that the employers and em- 
]>loyees in Washington— that is. the trade-union officials and the 
emplovees in Washinglon. the machinists, printers, railroad men, 
or Avhatever thev mav'be — have agreed as to what are the conditions 
to applv in Washington. There may be different conditions in New 
York; "there mav be different conditions in Pittsburgh, and that is 
Avhat I mean bv a district, the district in Washinjrton, Pittsburgh, 
XcAv York, or as the case might be. Now. then, supi)osmg the rates 
were time and a h.alf for overtime and double time for Sunday, 
whicheA-er Avas the general prevalent rate: Avhenever men Avorked 



56 BRITISH LABOR S WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAIS^ LABOR. 

over the standard hours they received the district rate, if it was time 
and a half, or if it was double time, as the case might be. That 
existed everywhere. 

Mr. Michael. I would like to ask Mr. Thomas what plan was 
adopted at the outset of the war to determine how many men should 
he enlisted, or should volunteer, or be conscripted from industry, 
which would be called upon probably to serve the Government with 
supplies? What plan was used to determine hoAv many men should 
go to the front ? 

Mr. Thomas. In the early stages of the war, one of the criticisms 
<Urected against it might be shown in the f olloAving example : Take 
the mines," there were 222,000 colliers enlisted within 18 months of 
the war. On the railways there were 127,000 who enlisted. Take 
those two industries alone. Now, the Government discovered that 
it was necessary to produce for the navy alone six times the amount 
of coal as prewar. They also found, as you know, that France was 
overrun by Germany, with the result that there again they had to 
provide for the French and Italian navies. In addition to all the« 
electric works and foundries, which were on increased output, all 
]'equiring coal, the production of munitions was affected thereby,, 
tlierefore they decided that by agreement no further colliers, miners,, 
were to be allowed to go into the army unless there was an under- 
standing that they could be spared. That also applied to railroad 
men. In munitions works badges were issued and worn by the 
men as an indication that the man was on war work. Now, you can 
quite understand tliat we have slackers in the old country, and there 
Avere men who were more anxious to become colliers than they were 
soldiers, and the result was that many of them migrated to collieries 
and became colliers, not because they loved coal getting, but because 
they loved it better than fighting. They had a conscientious objec- 
tion to fighting, but not to coal getting. Incidentally there were 
many men in position who gave their sons positions as clerks and 
all manner of things at collieries and other places, which exempted 
them. There was a tribunal set up, and on that tribunal capital, 
labor, and the Government was represented. They were represented 
in every district, and it Avas their duty to examine every applicant 
who was not Avorking as a miner, as the case might be. before the 
war, and if they decided that he Avas nonessential, he automatically 
Avas sent to the army. Those tribunals in the main have Avorked 
very satisfactorily but, as I say, many industries suffered in the early 
stages. 

Mr. Brady. On that particular point I can see hoAv it would prob- 
abl}^ work out here as it probably has Avorked out in England, 
Avhere there is a very convenient Avay for some employers to get 
rid of a job, or of the Avorking people. 

Mr. Thomas. What you want to knoAv from me is how did we 
prevent the unscrupulous employer from getting rid of the man by 
this means that he Avould not otherwise have been enabled to do. 
That is what you Avant to knoAv, and I Avill tell you : We first made 
an agreement that AvhencA^er a man Avas released for military serv- 
ice it had to be the last man who went in the service of the em- 
ployer, and we sent up a committee to see that that was done, and 
that prevented Sam Gompers. if he Avas a cigarmaker, from being 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 57 

driven into the arni^y because it was convenient to get rid of him. 
[AiDplause.] 

The Chairman. Mr. Thomas has found it necessary to leave, but 
Mr. Bowerman is here and will answer questions. Before any ques- 
tions are asked. Dr. Talcott Williams has asked to present a thought 
which he has in mind and he desires to submit it to the meeting now. 
Mr. Thomas just told me that he would come back if we are still in 
session. 

Dr. Talcott Williams. Mr. President, I think we ha\e all been 
impressed with the remarks we have heard from our friends. Mr. 
r>owerman and Mr. Thomas, as to the extent to which cooperation 
has been secured in the United Kingdom between the Government 
and the working union, just exactly as we have heard from Judge 
Amos as to the extent it has been secured in the working of capital 
and the working of Government, and I therefore propose this reso- 
lution: 

Whereas tlii.s coiuinittee lias heard in this ses.'^ion a full prestiitMtion of rlie 
cooperation of the Government of the United Kinudoin and oi-.^anized labor 
during the Wi^r — 

Resolved, That this committee approve a like policy in the I'nited States 
and urge and endeavor the safeguarding alike the rights of labor and securing 
ihe Idghest efficiency and economy in the production of nnniitions and su]i- 
))lies. 

Mr. Mact. I second the motion. 

The Chairman. It has been moved and seconded that the propo- 
sition just submitted by Dr. Williams have the approval of this gen- 
eral committee and that the matter be referred to the executive com- 
mittee of the committee on labor. Are you ready for the question 
upon that motion? All in favor will say "Aye"; opposed "No." 
The motion is unanimously carried. 

Mr. EvERET D. Waio. Mr. President, I would like to a.sk a ques- 
tion of Mr. Bowerman regarding the safety of workers, as to whether 
you have, from England's experience, some suggestion which may be 
of value in solving problems which I believe lie before- us in the 
inatter of building factories, hospitals, and in the conversion of 
factories to uses for which they were not constructed. A^liat meas- 
ures have been taken for the workers from a sanitary standpoint, 
fire-protection standpoint, protection against fumes and poisonous 
gases? I believe that every member of this connnittee will agree 
that even if the hmnan being, the Avorker of a machine. Avas consid- 
ered as a machine, it would be the wise thing to preserve the ma- 
chine and keep them from working too long hours from the dan- 
ger of burning them up in the building before their Avork is com- 
pleted, and that Ave should take some measures to helj) our Govern- 
ment avoid making mistakes along that line. Are there any sug- 
gestions you can give us from your ex])erience Avhicli uiay be of 
A'alue to us? 

Mr. Boaverman. The only answer to that is this: A good many 
nmnition factories have been established by the Govermnent, and 
that fact proves that Government inspection — that is, the inspection 
of the home office — Avas actually outlined in the construction of those 
buildings. They are buildings of temporary character, not sky- 
scrapers, btit of" a A-ery modern character: but one of the first essen- 
tials was — and let me' give the GoA-ernment credit for this — that the 



58 BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

comfort of the workers was practically, I might say, the first consid- 
eration. There have been gentlemen at work looking into the wel- 
fare side of the question. I think I may say this, that the factories 
which have been established by the Government for the production 
of munitions have been erected in order that the health of the workers 
may be preserved to the fullest possible extent, and we are rather 
hopeful that, as a result of those measures taken by our Government 
officials, private officials may follow the example set by the Govern- 
ment and improve the sanitary conditions in their own places. You 
have heard the word " controlled establishments." The Government 
has insisted, so far as it can insist, that if there was any fault with 
the sanitary arrangement, improvement should be made. Therefore 
we may claim this, that it has been one of the first instructions on the 
part of the Government that those who are called upon to work so 
strenuously, as they have been called upon, that their health should 
be given first consideration. 

I am glad the question has been put, because in the industrial 
world we appreciate what our own officials have done in that regard. 

Mr. H. B. F. Macfaeland. I desire to ask what proportion of the 
soldiers have been incapacitated by drink and vice and what steps the 
Government has taken to protect them from the dangers of drink and 
vice. That has a practical side in the fact that our own boys may 
have to stay in England on the way over. To what extent have the 
soldiers been incapacitated? 

Mr. BowERMAN. Do you speak of the men in the field or the men 
in training? 

Mr. Macfakland. In the field and in training, both. 

Mr. Boweeman. I do not think I can give you the proportion. 
But, taking a fighting force, I think it will be shown later on that no 
more sober bod}^ of men ever took up arms than the British, Aus- 
tralian, and Canadian soldiers. If you refer to our big cities, where 
men come back from the front on leave for seven days or a fortnight, 
I think I ought to admit that there are a few cases where the men 
have been subjected to certain temptations, which we regretted. 

When we remember that a man has been out to the front, taking his 
share in the fighting line, probably out there for eight or nine months, 
and he comes back for a short leave, it is a little pardonable, in my 
judgment, if that man does just give way a little. Speaking for my- 
self, I think I would do so. But, at the same time, I want to say that 
there have been some very strong comments in the London press to 
the effect that these men have taken good account of themselves; 
some of them have not been taken in hand quite so well as they might 
have been. In other words, they have been left more or less to their 
own resources, and a few have been victimized in a wrj I need not 
describe. In some cases they have been drugged and deprived of 
their money. 

Here let me pay a tribute to the work of what is known as the 
Y, M. C. a. — in other words, the Young Men's Christian Associa- 
tion. The}^ have been as near the fighting line as they could set up 
their tents. In London and in all of our large cities that association 
has done magnificent work. They meet the men when they arrive at 
the station, they go there and get their food at the cheapest possible 
rate, and that organization is at work throughout Great Britain 
doing splendid work, and I think you may take it from me that the 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 59 

social life of the soldiers during- the time they are on leave is as 
well looked after as it possibly can be. lUit. I say, there are a few- 
exceptions. Sonie of the men. as they .step out of "the train, if there 
was amj^le provision. w( uld ratlier go their own way. Some of their 
ow^n men have gone their own way and we have regretted it. 

Mr. Macfarland. As a member of the international committee of 
the Young Men's Christian Association I am glad to hear this 
tribute. I was asking as to the measures of the Government with 
rsepect to the number of saloons, bars, or public houses, and with 
respect to prohibition of the consumption of liquor during the war. 
I may say we have had serious statements made, for example, in the 
Spectator, which is recognized, and in our OAvn most serious publi- 
cations, and from representative men who have been in England, and 
from representative Canadians there have been a series of statements 
Avhich have led us to believe that there has been a serious loss in 
morale, and even in lives, because of the conditions that prevailed at 
the opening of the war. I am desirous of knowing what the Gov- 
ernment has done to reduce those dangers. 

Mr. Bow^ERMAN. At the beginning of the war it was not an unusual 
thing to see a man here and there the worse for drink. It was not 
his fault altogether, but it was the fault of those who shook him 
by the hand and congratulated him on his jiati'iotism and asked him 
to have a drink. But the (iovernment stepped in, and they i)ut 
certain districts out of bounds for soldiers; thev prohibited licensed 
people from serving soldiers, and that applied to munitions areas, 
barrack cities, and towns, and so on, and by that means they really 
stopped the flow of drink to men who otherwise might have been 
inclined to give way. 

But I say again, without the slightest hesitation, it is a delight to 
know the wonderful sobriety that has characterized our men in the 
cities and at the front. You can take it from me, you can walk 
through our streets of London, or Newcastle, or Minster, or West- 
minster and see thousands of soldiers and not one evidence of drunk- 
enness on their part. So, as I say. when men have gone away and 
want to seek their own enjoyment it is in those cases where episodes 
have occurred which we regret. But I rather think, from what you 
have said, a rather extravagant statement has been made which has 
reached Canada and mav have reached here. I have traveled with 
hundreds and thousands of these men m various parts of England: 
I have seen them in France: I saw them everywhere: and a cleaner, 
better-behaved set of fellows, whether Canadians or Britishers could 
not be found, and it is one of the delights of the civilians who are 
left at home to find how well-behaved these men are in spite ot the 
fact that thev faced other hardships which we civilians can not 
appreciate to the full. They have come back to a limited amount of 
freedom, and they have not forgotten they were soldiers first and 
civilians afterwards. ^ . , . j; 

The Chairman. Before we go any further. I notice that one ot our 
committee has to leave: but before he leaves I think tliat you and 
I know that I, would like to hear from him and to have ^^ ";^\^^ J 
the expression of his opinion, not only upon what he ^^'^^ 1;^'^;.^\' ^ut 
upon he activities and puri^oses of this committee . ^ ^e toimei 
crovernor of Ohio, the former ambassador from tlie United States to 
France, Mvron T. Herrick. [Applause.l 



60 BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICA:^ LABOR. 

Mr. Mykon T. Hekrick. Mr. President, ladies and oentlemeii : T 
think if anyone entertains, after these months and years, any doubt 
as to who began this war. all he needs to do is to make an examina- 
tion as to who was prepared for this war in the beginning. I hap- 
pened to see in the beginning that lack of preparation just as we see 
it here in the United States to-day, and yet those nations there have 
been face to face with the preparations for 40 years, nearly. A 
certain number of men there, as a certain number of men here, saw 
danger and attempted to make preparation for it. But when the 
final blow came they, like ourselves who had been hoping against 
hope, found themselves in a condition of unpreparedness such eis Mag^ 
astounding for those nations who have had a chance to witness that 
which was before them, both as to their preparation in civil life and 
to meet a war. 

Lloyd-George came to Paris in the early days when the British Em- 
bassj^ happened to be occupying one floor of the American Embassy 
at that moment, as the British Embassy was closed. He came over 
there, together with some other men, to look over the situation, just 
as we are looking over the situation to-day, to see what could be done 
1o meet a condition that seemed to be overwhelming England. In 
those moments he seemed almost in despair and he had ideas of what 
could be accomplished, ideas that run in common with those that 
have been expressed here to-day. I remember he was asked if he 
thought that they could manufacture munitions to meet the demands 
of their army, because they had no army, so you know they were 
jjractically out of munitions. He was asked if that could be accom- 
]:)lished, because it was apparent that America could not furnish all 
that they needed, and it Vas further apparent if they did not have 
those munitions that they would fail. I recollect his pungent answer. 
He said " If we can not do it and do it quickly it will be our eternal 
damnation, and we shall do it." Then he outlined the policy that 
the strong men have been talking about here to-day, dilution and 
all that sort of thing, and awakening of patriotism and a sense of 
responsibility of all classes of people in order that labor, productive 
capacity and government, should go hand in hand for the accom- 
plishment of that purpose. 

What has been done you have heard better than I can possibly tell 
it. I understand that the efficiency in England has increased prob- 
ably 100 per cent and by 75 or 100 per cent in France. That was 
just as necessary as it is for us now to quickly arrange to meet the 
conditions that are now facing us, which are quite like those facing 
England and France in those days. 

During some two years and a half, while they have been making 
these preparations, Avhile that little line running across France and 
the British Navy have stood between the United States and its 
aspirations and liberties, we have been waiting and waiting, and 
doing nothing whatever, practically. I do not speak of this in any 
fault-finding sense. I doubt if England or France would have appre- 
ciated the situation sooner than we have appreciated it. But that 
is the fact, and it is here and upon us, and shall we be equal to the 
situation? Until the people of the United States make up their 
minds that we can make Government productivity, labor capacity, 
and joint organization equal to fight this war. we shall not be on the 
highway, and it is very hopeful here, Mr. President, that to-day there 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 61 

are the kind of men meeting here, receiving advice and counsel from 
England, from Canada, and from France, in order to in-cpare to 
meet the situation. I hope we shall be able to do it. 

While the outlook to-day is not pleasing, the great hope is that we 
*^hall soon be on the way in perfect organization, because there is no 
country in the world that has so mucirgood ability, i^o much trained 
capacity, so much genuine patriotism, and all Ave have to do is to 
assemble the parts. I think, sir, you are on the highway to accom- 
plish that. 

I believe that we shall be able to meet the situation and we shall 
be able now to perform our part in this great world crisis. I can not 
for a moment believe that if there can be a victory for the things 
for which our enemy stands that this Avorld could" be worth Avhile 
living in. 

My friend s])eaks here in a true Christian spirit, that of brothers 
and all that sort of thing. I agree with him. but I have wondered 
in tlie last two years whether there was a divine guidance overlook- 
ing the destinies of the peoples of this world, where we are ffoing, 
whetlier there was a guiding hand that was going to bring us out of 
this disaster in the world. I belicA^e that there is. and that is the 
hope, but I say sometimes I almost doubt, Avhen I tliink of the in- 
human acts Avhich do not seem to belong to that peaceful, happy Ger- 
man family as T saAv them years ago. Avhen t thiiik of the things that 
have happened, the things that I have seen, it fills my mind with 
horror to think that the Avhole people — we Avill admit that the people 
are right themseh-es — guided and directed, should commit the bar- 
barities and the inhumanities in this day and age of civilization. 
When T think of that it seems to me that AA'hile we may receive as 
brothers these peaceful, happy peojole as Ave have seen them, that avc 
can only receive them Avhen thei-e has been a complete reformation, 
a complete change of government, and that the government of abso- 
lutism, the government as expressed by the Hoheuzollerns, must 
perish, and that there has to be an absolute change, because the 
people of the United States, the people of England and of France, as 
I see them and know them, would ten thousand times rather die than 
to eA^er surrender and make any peace terms where that .sort of 
government is going to dominate in the world. [Applause.] 

The Chairman. During this day a member of the commission sent 
over by Lloyd-George Avith the three gentlemen avIio have addressed 
us to-day Avas absent during a large ])art of the day. I do not think 
the proceedings Avould be complete if Ave did not hear from him. I 
shall ask Mr. Joseph Davies, the secretary to Premier Lloyd-Cieorge. 
to address us. I have the honor of ])resenting Mr. Davies to you. 

Mr. Davies. Mr. President, ladies, and gentlemen: I greatly regret 
that it was impossible for me to be here during the whole of this 
proceeding, but T am informed, and I should knoAA; had T not been 
informed, that vour talk has been intensely interesting. 

When vour president sent that wire to our prime minister, I knoAV 
that Lloyd-George Avas extremely pleased to receive it. He took 
gi-eat interest in the formation of this commission, and T am sure 
that he Avill be the first to require from the commi.ssion a full report 
of the Avork they have been able to do and vieAvs they have foiiued 
after consultation Avith all vou irentlemeu. 



62 BRITISH LABOR 'S WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

We, in our country, know what an immense service lias been 
rendered to assist the nation during" this war, and in saying that I 
can say it from every class of people, from the highest to the lowest, 
in the United Kingdom. They all recognize that without the willing 
assistance of labor we should by this time probably have had to recog- 
nize that our country and our lives had been defeated. And we are 
sure that America will find exactly the same course adopted by labor. 
They have a great inspiration in the cause they are fighting for, and 
in the various discussions and consultations we have had in this 
country we have been struck with the determination that America 
is going to do its very best in the great cause to which it has com- 
mitted itself. 

I do not propose to touch upon any immediate problem. From 
what I know of Mr. Thomas, Mr. Bowerman, and Mr. Garrod, in 
the time that you have placed at their disposal to-day they have 
not left many questions of the labor problem untold. But I should 
like to say this, that we have had, since the commencement of the 
war, various victories. We have had the great event of Italy coming 
in, but no event has happened since the outbreak of the war that 
has caused us such intense pleasure, such deep and abiding joy, as 
the coming in of the American people. I can not find language 
enough to express the feelings of our people at America coming in. 
We recognize that you can give us material aid. but the material aid, 
as great as it stands to me, is nothing compared to the fact that once 
again these two great English-speaking peoples, the British and 
those of the British Empire, and those of the United States, are 
standing side by side, fighting for, the highest ideals, and when the 
war is over that great alliance will not end, but I believe that the 
two nations will march forward, side by side, assisting each other, 
and making one great triumphant progress toward the happiness of 
mankind. 

There is only one other word I wish to say, and that is a personal 
word of thanks for the manner in which we have been received. I 
know that I am speaking for all of the members of the commission 
when I say that we have been received with a hospitality and a per- 
sonal kindliness which has impressed itself on every one of us, and 
which we shall go back to England and remember as long as we live. 
I thank you. [Applause.] 

The Chairman. I shall continue the questions a little later on for 
such information as you desire, but before doing that I think you 
will all agree that it would be advantageous to all of us to hear an 
expression of judgment from various ladies and gentlemen as to the 
character of our work and the duties that are devolved upon us all. 

The Council of National Defense, in dividing the advisory commis- 
sion into seven committees and making a member of the commission 
a chairman of this committee, empowered the chairman to appoint 
committees and the men and women whom he desired to cooperate 
with him. As natural and rational, I was made chairman of the 
committee on labor for the health and Avelfare of workers. In asking- 
ladies and gentlemen to become members of my committee I did not 
confine the invitations to the men and the women of labor alone. I 
felt that the prime duty of the hour was to bring good men and 
women, perhaps of diverse points of view and judgment, whose in- 
terests were not identical. Therefore I availed mj^self of the thought 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 63 

that if we are to succeed in this enterprise upon which we have 

entered, we must mobilize and get the will of the people of this 

Nation. I asked, of course, primarily, the representative men and 

women m the labor movement, and then I looked and cudgeled mv 

brain and called in the assistance of others to suggest to me names of 

jnen and of women whom I could ask to become members of my com- 

.: .. 1 , ,. ... •. ^^^^ 

I'ere 

. c^c, iptains of 

industry and ot commerce to cooperate with the men of labor, and the 
nien of labor to cooperate with them, in order that we mav do our 
bit, to do our whole share for industry, for couunerce. for the 
fighting force, and to maintain the standards of life and living and 
opportunity among the civilians who remain at peace and in produc- 
tion. 

I have invited the representatives and the officers of the National 
Association of Manufacturers, and you know it needs no word from 
me to say that the relations of tliat association with that of the 
American labor movement were not of the most friendjy character. 
But that did not deter me from extending an invitation to the presi- 
dent of that association. Col. Pope, and to ask him to select and 
to submit to me some representative for appointment on my com- 
mittee. Col. Pope has done so. We have had Mr. Ne\in and now 
Mr. Michael not only as members of the general committee, but also 
as members of the executive committee. Mr. Elisha Lee, the general 
manager of the Pennsjdvania Railroad, and Mr. Louis B. Schramm, a 
large employer of labor, are also members of this committee and of 
the executive committee. I have asked a man who is prominent in the 
affairs of the industrial and commercial world, perhaps one of the 
largest employers of labor in America and in the world, to be a 
member of tliis committee. He. too, cordially accepted. So, with 
college professors, business men. publicists, and others interested in 
this great work of humanity, they have all cordially either offered 
their services or have accepted the invitation to be of service. 

I am going to ask one of the gentlemen to address this gathering 
and to express his opinion. I shall ask Mr. John D. Rockefeller, jr.. 
to address this gathering. [Applause.] 

Mr. JoHX D. Rockefeller, Jr. Mr. President and friends, I cer- 
tainly appreciate the honor which the president has conferred upon 
me in asking mt» to say a word. Although I hardly feel, coming 
before this committee to-day for the first time, I can hope to make 
any suggestion of value. I have enjoyed immensely the most able and 
informing addresses to Avhich we have all listened from the repre- 
sentatives from England and Canada. 

I have regarded it as a great opportunity to be here to-day to 
hear what these gentlemen have said, and it has been an inspiration 
to us. When I was askeil by your chairman to serve as a member 
of this committee, I accepted "because T regarded it as a patriotic 
duty to accept, and as an honor to have been invited, and I feel that 
in the invitation which vou extended to me I was particularly hon- 
ored. I Avas not asked at the outset. T was not present at the last 
meeting, because mv invitation was subsecjuent to that time. It is 
evident to me. and I take it as a compliment, that at the last meeting 
you, Mr. President, and my colleagues, found that it was necessary 



64 BRITISH LABOE S WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

to add others to this committee, and on that score I was so fortunate 
as to have been inA'ited to join. 1 appreciate the honor of being 
invited to come here and I need not say that it will be my pleasure 
to do whatever I can. as a member of this committee, to advance the 
niterests of the committee which are the interests of onr country and 
of our allies. As I listened to the very informing addresses of the 
gentlemen who ha^e spoken to us from these several commissions 
to-day, I could but wish that time coidd be given — and, probably, 
Mr. President, you have already taken the time — to sit down with 
these gentlemen, not for an hour, but for a number of days, with a 
stenographer, to put to them the thousand questions which are aris- 
ing from the thoughts of all of us. but which we dare not begin to 
ask because of the shortness of time, and take down stenographically 
their answers. I hastened out after Mr. Thomas to inquire when 
he was to come back, and hoping to have the opportunity to ask him 
many questions which I feel he can answer. 

I feel that this committee would not be true to at least one of its 
important functions and duties were it not to secure in writing from 
these visitoi's from abroad and from Canada, the fullest possible 
information on which they can infoi'm us. in which they have had 
extensive experience, sometimes bitter, and on which we will need 
very much information. I suppose this has all been done, and if not, 
1 presume it will be done. So that, after these gentlemen have gone 
iiway and they will not be longer available we will find that there 
is information which we need and which we have not gotten. 

There, are others who can speak wdth more authority and more 
helpfully than I on an occasion of this kind, but I simply want to 
say, in closing, that it is a great pleasure to me to be here, not only 
because of all the work that this committee stands for, but because of 
the opportunity of extending the acquaintance which I have already 
begun during the years which have passed, not onh^ with the em- 
ployers of this country, but those who represent to so large an extent 
the laboring people of this country. 

It is a great pleasure to me to know increasingly these people. I 
want them to know that I should like to have them regard me as 
their friend. I have been brought up to regard those who work 
with their hands as honorable and frequently more honorable than 
those who work with their heads, and I sometimes regret that there 
did not come to me the oppoi'tunity to work with my hands and 
make my own way from boyhood, as was true of my father and as 
has been so true of many splendid men who have gathered here. 
My lot was cast in another field. I have had to do certain things 
which have fallen to me to do. I have tried and I am trying to do 
them as best I can, but I honor and respect the man who does work 
with his hands, and I covet for my sons the privilege of knowing 
how to work w^ith their hands, of being able to stand shoulder to 
shoulder with those who work with their hands, as well as those who 
work with their heads. So I am happy to feel the brotherhood and 
friendship with all those who have gathered here to-day. 

T thank you for the opportunity to say these words. [Applause.] 

The Chatkmax. It seems to me the advantage I am taking of the 
opportunity to call upon men is rather agreeable and meeting with 
good results, and as a consequence I shall continue for a little while 
longer at least in that same direction. 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 65 

I am going to ask another great employer of labor, a man engaged 
in large alliiirs of our country, to address the assemblage. I have 
the pleasure of introducing Mr. Daniel Guggenheim. 

Mr. Guggenheim. This is an opportunity I did not expect, Mr. 
Chairman^ to come and one that I did not want, because there is very 
rarely an occasion for me to address anyone unless I come prepared 
to do so. This is the first meeting I have attended since the organi- 
zation, and I want to say it is a great revelation to me the way the 
whole thing has been outlined and the amount of excellent work that 
has already been accomplished. 

The words that I have heard to-day from the speakers who have 
preceded me were a great revelation and have inspired me to a very 
great extent. I have felt for some years now that my work was 
nearing its end, and I was preparing to spend the balance of my days 
in taking things easy. I have worked for 45 or more years. 1 have 
been in harness continuously all that time, and I was beginning to 
turn the work I have done in the past years over to my two sons and 
to my son-in-law. However, I arranged with them only recently to 
go to the front when the country called them to do so. I was to stay 
home, look after their families, and at the same time get back into 
harness again and do the work they are now doing for me. I am 
prepared to do it and expect to do it. I did not feel I Avanted to 
take on any additional work, but when the call came from Mr. 
Gompers to present myself here and do what work I could I will say 
frankly I am prepared to do anything I will be called upon to do, 
provided I can carry it out. 

The work outlined by this organization is most thorough and is 
going forward in a great way. It is surprising to have these leaders 
tell us of the mistakes they have made, and it shows me that we are 
on the right track and doing the right thing. I am prepared to offer 
my services to this committee whenever called upon to do so, even 
though I had practically agreed to retire from all kinds of work 
and take on less work than I have been doing in the past years. 

Mr. President, my services are at your disposal whenever you need 
me. [Applause.] 

The Chairman. I think it is agreed by all scientists, as Avell as by 
men of experience, that if we let a man of mature years quit working, 
he will die very soon thereafter. I congratulate Mr. Guggenheim 
upon his determination in the course he has pursued. All things 
being fairly even, he has simply taken on a new lease of life. I am 
going to ask Mr. McMillan to favor us with a few expressions. 

Mr. McMillan. Mr. Chairman, it has been almost impossible for 
four or five weeks for me to talk at all on account of laryngitis, but I 
shall not attempt to make any speech except to refer to the fact that 
Mr. Guggenheim has retired Vt a young period of life. The idea of 
working but 45 years and then retiring shows a little bit of selfish- 
ness. I only retired about three or four years ago and I Avorked 60 
years before I retired. 

I just want to refer to one single thing, entirely out of the light of 
the matter we are discussing now. The thought occurred to nie when 
Mr. Thomas was saying the probability was the world woukl be 
better that the people Avould be better after the war was over, and a 

S. Doc. 84, 65-1 5 



66 BRITTSH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

warm feeling growing between the comrades in the trenches, that 
that would be simply marvelous in the future, and I noted that it 
received general approval. I doubt if there were very many present 
who knew that that was true and if they believed. I know it is true. 
I served more than four years in the Civil War, and no one was ever 
more devoted to his mother than I. My mother sent six sons to the 
Army, and it is an absolute fact that within two weeks after our- 
armies were dismissed I had a greater desire to see the men in the 
various companies I had served with than I ever had to see my 
mother when I had been away from her for a year. [Applause.] 

The Chairman. One of the men who has devoted, for several years 
past, his entire time to public services is with us as a member of our 
committee. I am going to ask Mr. Theodore Marburg to address us. 

Mr. Marburg. Mr. President and fellow members of the com- 
mittee, I think this war is not only a war for democracy, but I feel 
that it is a test of democracy. Unfortunately, democracy is generally 
at the cost of efficiency. I think you must face that fact ; it is at the 
cost of efficiency for the Government in time of peace, and it is more 
at the cost of efficiency in time of war. 

Certain people in Great Britain, America, and France have gone 
through the things so far as democracy is regarded as an experiment, 
but they have come to look upon it as a permanent factor in politics. 
The great evil of the past has been the oppression bv the few, and 
the democracy is the only thing which makes it possible to correct 
such a thing when it arises without war. But we are in a struggle 
with an autocratic government that has proved itself efficient in 
time of peace in the government of cities, in the application _ of 
science to industry, and has proved a tremendous efficiency in time 
of war. 

As a student at a German university I was made to feel that these 
people regarded our form of government as still an experiment. The 
professors at Heidelberg looked upon their form of government as 
a permanent form. They said when we got to social pressure in this 
country, when we got the disinherited, with the franchise in their 
hands, that our Government would fall. We went through a political 
test in the Civil War, but we have yet to come to face the social test. 
Now it is that belief which has been urging forward the German 
military class, misleading their people to bring upon this cataclysm. 
They believe honestly that autocracy is more effective than democ- 
racy ; they deplore the term. 

We are too apt to determine progress in numbers, such as pounds 
of cotton and pounds of iron, and so forth. Progress is not in that 
direction. Athens at its highest had about 50,000 people and wrote 
its great name in history. The small cities of Florence and Venice 
have done immortal things in painting and sculpture. _ It is not 
numbers, but progress lies in the growth oi spiritual and intellectual 
things, and particularly in justice, the justice of man to man, the 
justice written in the law and written in the courts; the justice of 
nation to nation. That is the thing for which the English-speaking 
world has stood, for which America has stood, and for which Great 
Britain has stood, and it is a fight for justice that we are engaged in. 

The evil of autocracy is manifest in the very acts of Germany, 
which have been so appropriately characterized by these men as a 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 67 

disgrace not only to Germany, but as a disgrace to America. Take 
as an illustration Belgium, where the men and women work side by 
side trying to build up a little household and rear their children 
and lay by something. There everything is swept into the abyss,, 
the young boy caught with a rifle in his hand and placed against a 
wall. I ask you what justice fits acts like those ? As to its ultimate 
issue I have no doubt, and I can not but feel, that this case of justice 
must triumph. You may have injustice, triumphing in the world 
at times, but it seems to me impossible that wrong, which the Avhole 
world recognizes as wrong, shall triumph. Germany has been talk- 
ing about the will to dictate. Gentlemen, what I fear is that that 
same apathy which characterized the English nation in the beginning 
of this war is going to characterize us. I was in England six weeks 
after the war began. At the end of three weeks one of the colonels 
told my wife he had been sitting in the recruiting office all day and 
not one man had applied for enlistment. I fear it will be fidly a 
year, if the war lasts so long, before this country is aroused to the 
extent of the task before us. There is a duty before us now. and 
that is to arouse the people of this country to the real issue of this 
war and to its seriousness. Over and above the triumph of the cause 
of justice there is another great issue, which our President has 
pointed out so well ; and Avhile engaged in the duty of the hour, the 
duty of preparation, the duty of conducting this fight to a finish 
which will end forever the autocratic group in Germany which 
brought this war on. there is the duty of being prepared in another 
way, preparing an organization, a rudimentary war organization 
which will prevent a repetition of this cataclysm. Xo one could 
have pointed out that thing more eloquently than our President in 
his great Avar message to the Senate. We may see that just as the 
Stars and Stripes symbolize the union of free States in America, 
so it may come to symbolize the union of nations making for justice 
and good will. You will find that democracy makes for good will. 
The reason France and England have been able to Avork together 
is that they entered into an entente cordiale some 15 years ago. 
which was impossible under the old autocratic system. Again I say 
that democracy makes for good Avill, and Ave must carry this fight 
to a successful conclusion in order that posterity may enjoy that 
freedom for which our forefathers haA'e fought and for which we are 
now joined with the allies in order to accomplish. I thank you. 
[Applause.] 

The Chairman. Now, I Avill state to the gentlemen upon whom I 
have called to address us, and those whom I am about to call here, 
that I have their names on a list, or others in my mind, so that they 
will be entirelv unprepared so far as delivering an address is con- 
cerned. But I assume that in addition to listening to the addresses 
they are forming in their minds Avhat they intend to say. I am gomg 
to ask Mr. Colgate Hovt to address us. 

Mr Colgate Hoyt. :\rr. President, ladies and gentlemen: I feel 
verv much like the man Avho had fallen into the river and was flouu- 
der'ino- and splashing around, trvinfi- to get out. and a fiieiiil on the 
bank,'"lookins at him. said, •• :\lv" friend, how did you come to tall m 
the river ^ '" "He said. " T did not come to fall in. I came to hsh. 



68 BKITISH LABOR S WAE MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

Mr. President, I am a little in that situation. I can not tell you 
how much I have enjoyed the fishing here to-day. It has been an in- 
spiration, I am sure, to everyone gathered here. Busy man that I 
am, I hesitated a moment when I received Mr. Gompers's invitation 
to join the committee, but I felt it was a duty for every man to do 
his full part toward this mighty struggle that we are in. I thank 
God that I have one boy in the Army and one boy in the Navy, and 
I only wish I had more to. put into the same service, but, as we have 
heard to-day, there is work for everyone of us to do, there is effi- 
cient work, there is serious work, and there are sacrifices to be made. 

At playtime I do farming to some extent. This year I am going 
to do a little more than play at it. But, as I have seen the unanimity, 
the cordiality, and the fellowship here, I have felt that these gather- 
ings are doing a great deal of good. When last month I gathered my 
men together, and one Sunday afternoon had a talk with them, not 
knowing what the future would lead to but telling them we would all 
be in the same boat and all perhaps together, when many employers 
were losing their employees, and everything of that kind, my super- 
intendent came to me on the 3d of May, and he said, " Mr. Hoyt, not 
a man has left," which certainly was very gratifying to me. We 
have all of us got to do our whole part to keep up the standard of 
living as much as possible. God forbid that we should ever sink 
into such barbarism as we have seen perpetrated in the last two years 
and a half. God forbid that our wives and our daughters should 
forever work in the fields instead of able-bodied men. No ! But in 
times like these every child and every woman and every man must do 
his full part, and I feel very sure that the inspiration that we have 
received here to-day will send every one of us home with a determi- 
nation and a resolution that so far as we are concerned, we will not be 
found wanting. [Applause.] 

The Chairman. I am reminded that we have had a long session. 
It is now after 6 o'clock, and you are accustomed to take your dinners 
about this time, though I am perfectly willing to be governed accord- 
ing to your wishes. Is it your wish that we should sit here for an 
hour or two longer, or shall we take a recess and reconvene at 8 
o'clock this evening? 

Mr. Macfarland. Mr. Chairman, I move you that we take a recess 
now and reconvene at 8 o'clock this evening. 

The Chairman. I would like to conserve the desires of you ladies 
and gentlemen, and you may have no consideration for me, for I 
will go along as you direct. Before the motion is put, I would like 
to get an expression of opinion by a vote, whether you, ladies and 
gentlemen, will, if a motion is adopted, reconvene this evening at 
8 o'clock, because if we are not to have a representative gathering it 
would be useless to have a few come. 

Mr. Macfarland is a public-spirited citizen of the District and was 
for many years one of the three commissioners, and chairman of the 
Commissioners of the District of Columbia. Mr. Macfarland moves, 
and it has been seconded, that we now take a recess and reconvene in 
this room at 8 o'clock p. m. All those in favor of the motion will 
signify by raising their right hands. The motion is carried unani- 
mously. 

(Thereupon, at 6.10 o'clock p. m., the committee took a recess, to 
meet at 8 o'clock p. m. of the same date.) 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 69 

EVENING SESSION. 

The committee reconvened at 8 o'clock p. m. 

The Chairman. I think it would be well to open the evening session 
with some remarks from a labor man, and I am goino- to^'ask the 
]iresident of the United Association of Plumbers and Gas-Fitters and 
Steam-Fitters, and the vice president of the American Federation of 
Labor to address the conference at this time. I call upon Mr. John 
Alpine, 

Mr, John Alpine. Mr, Chairman, ladies and gentlemen: I am 
very glad the president saw fit to designate my few remarks as an 
address, because, really, I would not have assumed the responsibility 
of so designating them myself. Confidentially. I had hoped that your 
president would ask me to say something, not that I had assumed 
that I would be able to add anything to the eloquence that ha(l 
already been offered, but simply that I might get my name in the 
minutes. 

However, I think I am a sufficiently good American and trade- 
unionist to say just a few words that may be apropos of this occa- 
sion, which may not be deemed worthy of the title of an address. 
Like all the rest of you, I am deeply concerned in the crisis we are 
now facing, and this meeting of to-day, bringing together as it does 
so many men and women in various walks of life, and with as many 
varying industrial points, to me reindorses the declaration made by 
the British delegate when he said something tliat was closely akin to 
the declaration that while war may be all that Sherman said it was 
and that we believe it to be, it is also a leveler of opinion and brings 
us all to a common plane, not alone in the trench or trenches on the 
battle front, but here where we are meeting in an endeavor to find 
ways and means best calculated to serve the interests of our oAvn Na- 
tion in its cause and the cause of the allies with whom Ave have 
aligned our fate. It has occurred to me, and I know Ave all hope it 
to be true, that in spite of all the evil that is prevalent noAv as a result 
of this world-Avide Avar, in spite of the evil that may be resultant 
thereof, there Avill come out of all the smoke and tumult of battle ii 
better w^orld, a better people, a better understanding, not only Avith 
regard to men Avho fight shoulder to shoulder in the actual trench 
line of battle but in the industrial centers as Avell, since this brings 
us into more closely allied contact with all forms and classes of hu- 
manity. May it not be, after all is said and done, a blessing in dis- 
guise if it brings to us those benefits that more than outweigh the 
evils through Avhich w'e are passing; perhaps it may bring in its 
train a few more republics in Europe as a result of the conflict. 

There is one thing it Avill establish or, rather, reastablish. It Avill 
establish to the Avorld that, as much as Ave love peace, as peace loving 
as we as a people are, it will reaffirm, reestablish, and agnin demon- 
strate to the Avorld that there are no better men, there are no better 
soldiers, than the citizen soldiers of our Nation. Avho have proven that 
fact time and time again, and Avho Avill prove it again in the days to 
come if this conflict lasts sufficiently long for this proof to be needed. 

There is no need of my or your tongue proclaiming to the Avorld 
the loyalty of the labor movement of our country, since that has been 
further established in the days that have passed and Avill continue in 
establishment in the days of the future. It is not my purpose to 



70 BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

intrude upon your time. I came here at considerable disadvantage 
to myself, but with a firm knowledge that I would be amply repaid 
for such inconvenience as my own personal affairs have suffered, and 
unfortunately was unable to be here in time to listen to the addresses 
of the morning, but have felt more than repaid because of the privi- 
lege of having been present during the afternoon session. 

President Gompers very frequently, in introducing me, has referred 
to me as the president of the plumbers and steamfitters of the United 
States and Canada, and has added to that the soft impeachment that 
I was the president of all the robbers of the world. I heard here 
this afternoon one of the gentlemen, Mr. Guggenheim, say that he 
had retired from business and after having devoted something like 
45 years of activity in the business world, and I would like to say to 
him and to you that ordinarily the men whom I represent in part 
retire much earlier than Mr. Guggenheim retired. They are in a 
position so that they may retire long before they have put in -15 years 
of actual activity at their trade, because of the lucrativeness connected 
with their business. 

Seriously, I am indebted to you for the privilege and honor you 
do me in allowing me to make these few scattering, and I fear in- 
coherent, remarks. I just want to say this in conclusion: I have just 
left a son, not old enough to be drafted, but who is now on the way 
to Illinois in order that he may rally to the colors. I have never 
realized quite how young I am myself until I saw that boy ready to 
do his bit in defense of the greatest country that God ever gave 
existence to, and I feel as if I was ready and prepared to do my share 
just as every man among us feels if the occasion requires. 

We are a peace-loving people, we have not gone into this war of 
our own volition, but only after we had been driven into the matter 
because of the unjust and barbarous practices of the enemy we are 
about to face. The labor movement has issued its declarations, and 
those declarations will be reenforced by actual practice, and no doubt 
can exist as to the standing of the labor movement at this time in 
this crisis Ave are facing. 

I thank you, Mr. Chairman and ladies and gentlemen. [Applause.] 

The Chairmax. And jot^ Mr. Alpine would accuse me of flattering 
him when I said he would deliver an address. One of the men, a 
large employer of labor, who has given the world a demonstration of 
wonderful ingenuity, is with us. He is the man who provides the 
machines and makes people sav. without articulation, " Keep straight, 
$1.68." Mr. John Patterson", of the National Cash Register Co. 
[Applause.] 

Mr. JoHx Patterson. Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen, this 
is my first conference and it strikes me as an international school for 
industrial betterment, for the betterment of the new industrial army. 
I am very thankful for the able teachers we have had from the 
other side and am very grateful to them for taking such great risks 
on the ocean in order to be here and give this country the advantage 
of their experience and telling it to us in such a simple, straight- 
forward, broad-minded way. It will do lots of good. 'Mj onlv regret 
is that they could not remain in this country long enough to give 
these talks in many parts of the country. 

I can look forward with a great deal of satisfaction to the improve- 
ment that will come to capital, labor, and management throughout 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 71 

this country by the meeting here to-day and the meetings that will 
take place hereafter when I hope to be present. [Applause.] 

The Chairman. Suppose we hear from the man who helps to keep 
us warm in winter by the production of stoves, Mr. W. T. Barbour, of 
Detroit. [Applause.] 

Mr. W. T. Barbour. ]Vfr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen, I will 
go home greatly and deeply impressed with what has been told us, 
and I am going home and try to do what I can toward carrying out 
the ideas I have heard expressed here. 

The Chairman. We will have a word from a trade-union woman, 
an officer in a trade essential to industry wdiich is going to play a 
great part in this conflict, Mrs. Sarah A. Conboy, secretary and treas- 
urer of the United Textile Workers of America. [Applause.] 

Mrs. Con BOY. Mr. Gompers, friends, brothers, and sisters, I think 
that all of us who have attended this conference to-day have been 
deeply impressed by the stories, if you will, that haye been told us 
by our friends from across the water. I think the lesson that they 
have taught us of the question of preparedness, the w ay that they 
have handled the question over there, is going to be of the greatest 
'and deepest moment to us in the work that we, in this committee, 
are trying to do. 

I feel sure that the trades-union women who are members of this 
committee are going to do their share in helping to carry out the 
work of this committee, for, after all, women are a very essential 
part of the nation to-day, women are taking their places in the fore- 
front in all industries, and I think it is going to be the job of the 
women, as well as the job of the men, to see to it that when women 
are put into places to take the work formerly done by men, that they 
are going to get equal pay for equal w^ork, and I believe that the com- 
mittee, of which I am a member, and of which Mrs. J. Borden Harri- 
man is chairman, has that in mind at the present time. 

I am not going to make any lengthy speech, but I am glad to have 
this opportunity to say for my trade-union sisters who are here, and 
who perhaps will not have "this opportunity, that we have very 
much enjoyed the talks made by our delegates from Great Britain 
and from Canada, and I believe that the lessons they have taught 
us are filled wdth all the good things for us that will make us know 
and understand and profit by the mistakes which they made. I 
might say that I, perhaps, fully realize only too intensely what war 
means. Just returning from 'Canada, I spent a day in Toronto 
in the convalescent hospital and talked with a number of the ycnmg 
men who were there. . , 

I think it will be interesting to you, perhaps, to know the spirit 
that permeates so many of these men. Seated on the porch was a 
young man who had received nine w^ounds, two of them thej 
thought were fatal, but after 14 weeks in the hospital he recovered, 
and I said to him, "Do vou think of going back?" And he said 
"Do I think of going back? There is not any think about it. i 
am going back to-morrow." That is the spirit that makes men 

and makes women. , , /: j.i i. .i„^ 

Mr Chairman and friends, T am sure that the women of the trades- 
union movement, the women who are associated ^^ ■^^'^';}^'^ 
Gompers in this great human work, are gomg /o do then sliaie 
Perhaps we can not go into the trenches and fight, but we can stay 



72 BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

at home and do a whole lot of great big work and be of great service 
to the men who do go. I thank you, Mr. President. [Applause.] 

The Chairman. I am going to ask Col. Isaac UUman to favor us 
with a few remarks. 

Col. Isaac Ullman. Mr. Chairman, as the others have said, there 
is nothing further to be said. The last word was said this morn- 
ing, when the gentlemen from Great Britain spoke, and this after- 
noon when they were followed by our friend from Canada, and 
when the gentlemen from Great Britain so masterly stated their 
case when opportunity was given them to reply to questions which 
were so readily answered. 

It is a great pleasure to be here; it is a pleasure to represent at 
a gathering like this, old New England, and I might add that in a 
radius of 50 miles from my home town, New Haven, we are manu- 
facturing at this time about 50 per cent — slightly more than that — 
of all the arms and ammunition manufactured in the United States. 
So you will understand what has been said to-day is indeed inter- 
esting to us, and we have asked and are asking some of the gentle- 
men who came here and favored you here to-day with their remarks 
to come to us at New Haven and show us what we must be shown, 
in order that we may avoid the mistakes they made originally, and 
mistakes we are bound to make unless some one helps us avoid 
them. We are growing, too, having learned our lesson, and I hope 
they make come there and we may give them an old-fashioned New 
England welcome. It is a great pleasure to be here and join with 
you. Anything I can do at any time to cooperate with 3^ou in order 
to make the work a success I will be only too glad to do, and you 
should call on me and I will be glad to do my share. [Applause.] 

The Chairman. I am going to ask Mr. Clark, of the Eailroad 
Brotherhood, to address the conference. 

Mr. Clark. Mr. Chairman and ladies and gentlemen, this is very 
unexpected, indeed. Like the gentleman said in his talk this after- 
noon about a little boy who went fishing, that is what I came here 
for to-day — to listen to the stories and try, perhaps, to get a little 
nibble ; and I say that I have got a good big one now before I land 
the fish that you expect me to do. 

I am exceedingly glad and consider this a great honor to have the 
privilege of being a small unit of a great committee like this. The 
more you analyze it the more you realize the great and far-reaching 
effects for which this committee has been called together. It is be- 
yond my conception, this being my first experience here, and the 
subjects that have been discussed this morning and this afternoon 
have thrown a great light upon me, and I can hardly realize what it 
all means. 

I happen to be the representative of the railway conductors, one of 
the vice presidents located here in Washington, trying to do my little 
bit to assist in legislation that will be beneficial to the men that I try 
to represent. We have made some progress and hope to make more, 
and I am sure that in the final analysis you will find the railroad 
men, the men who operate the trains, willing and anxioiis to at all 
times do that which will be their duty in the coming conflict. 

I am very glad, indeed, to have had this opportunity to say just 
these few words, and if the railway conductors or the railway men in 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 73 

this country can have the opportunity, I am quite sure that they will 
not be found lacking. Mr. Chairman, I thank you. [Applause.] 

The Chairman. 1 am going to ask Dr. Halberstadt, of the Phila- 
delphia & Eeadmg Coal Co., Pottsville, Pa., to favor us with a few 
remarks. 

Dr. Halberstadt. Mr. Chairman, I am another one taken by sur- 
prise. I want to say to you people we must not forget the fact that 
you need coal. Next to munitions in w^arfare, next to the farmer, 
comes the coal miner, for if you can not get coal you can not make 
munitions. I want to Sciy to you that up in the anthracite coal region 
we have already furnished our quota for this war. You know these 
men in the anthracite regions are fighters; they would rather fight 
than eat any time. They got 30 per cent two weeks ago. They know 
how to fight; but the trouble is if you take our men away from us 
you will stop the production of anthracite coal, for the reason that no 
man can work in an anthracite coal mine without a certificate, and 
it takes two years to get a certificate. 

Now, it is a serious proposition, and if you want coal the Army 
will have to let our men alone. The War Department asked me a 
month or two ago to take all my men — I have been in charge of the 
first-aid insti'uction for the company as chief surgeon for 15 years — 
and to train the 2,500 men, and w^hen the foreigners or people from 
the Western States, from the United States Bureau of Mines, asked 
where to go to see the best first-aid work, I must confess that the,v 
sent them up to Eeading. I made a census of my men to see how 
many Ave could take into this war, and almost every man is married; 
almost every man has a family. 

The coal regions have furnished their quota and we want the Army 
to keep their hands off as many more men as they can and let us mine 
coal. A question came up this evening which was presented by a 
lady who addressed us on the women's work. I want to say to you 
ladies, and to you men, here to-night, that women's work begins 
long before she has to go to the munition factory, to the farm, or 
anywhere else. Were it not for the women, where would our armies 
be? Who is it that goes to work, did go to work two years and a half 
ago, and begin to make dressings to send to Europe? Why, it was 
the women of this country. Wlio has been at it ever since ? Why, it 
was the women of this country. Who have furnished the ambu- 
lances, who have done a majority of the work, but the women ? Now, 
I want to say to you this, that our women in Schuylkill County, Pa., 
furnished a whole lot of dressings that were sent to the station in 
Philadelphia a year ago, and two years ago, and two years and a 
ouarter ago, to be sent across the water. They could not send them 
over, and when that explosion took place at Eddystone a few weeks 
ago the dressings that were rushed to Eddystone to cover up those 
poor men and women who Avere mutilated by that explosion came 
from the lower anthracite coal region, they came from our little town 
of Pottsville and Schuylkill County. , . . . • nr 

Now, the women do not have to go to work in factories. My 
mother is 83 years of age and she has a little difficulty with hearing 
and eyesight, but she can sit down and knit. Last week, Avith her 
eyes shut, I found her knitting a new form of eye bandage to send 
abroad. I do not want you ladies to worry about going into factories. 
What I see is up to you to do is to get at your bandages and dressings, 



74 BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

stir your stumps and do just as much as you can and you can do just 
as much as the men. 

The other evening I was sent to go to our office in an assembly 
room, and there I found a large gathering and a band of music. As 
1 entered the door I found it was a Red Cross meeting. They told 
me that I need not make a speech and I did not, after Mr. Corey, the 
representative of the Red Cross, got through with his speech, for 
the enrollment cards were taken up and I found some of the audience 
slipping out of the back door, and it was hard to talk on a subject 
you did not know anything about. 

When I was a youngster at Sunday school our bishop came to see 
us and took as his text " God has a plan for every man." I told them 
I did not remember the story, but I thought I remembered the gist 
of it, and it was this : A boy had been born a cripple, and something 
happened in the little town in which he lived. Something terrible 
happened in the little town in which he lived; he was the only person 
who saw what was going on, and he gathered his strength together, 
got out and gave the alarm and saved the town. Through his exer- 
tions he lost his life, but there was a boy who was born a hopeless 
cripple, who saved his town but lost his life. Now, we can each do 
our bit and we will do it. 

I have been very much interested in this talk to-day, and I am 
sure I am going back to Pennsylvania and do what I can among our 
people to further the objects of this organization. I feel highly com- 
plimented on having been made a member of this subcommittee. 

The Chairman. I am going to ask the gentlemen whose names I 
shall call, to please confine their remarks to, say, two or three minutes, 
because we want to return to the questions and to the answers. I am 
going to ask Mr. Wharton, the president of the railway employees 
department of the American Federation of Labor, to favor us with 
a few remarks. 

Mr. A. O. Wharton. Mr. Chairman, ladies, and gentlemen, I can 
assure you, as have previous speakers, that I have certainly enjoyed 
the opportunity of being present at this meeting to-day, and the in- 
formation that has been conveyed to us by our brothers from across 
the pond and from Canada will leave a mark and be an epoch in so 
far as I am concerned. 

I represent a class of men who are seldom heard of — they are the 
men who make and repair and provide for the safety in transporta- 
tion, the machinists, the boiler makers, blacksmiths, sheet-metal 
v>'orkers, electricians, and carmen who perform a service that is above 
all essential to many of the things that we have skirted around to-day 
in our remarks. Without them we would be almost helpless, and 
ihese same class of men are principally engaged in the building of 
munitions, the building of ships, aeroplanes, and everything that goes 
in and goes toward making a modern civilization possible. For these 
men I desire to say, in closing, that their loyalty can not be ques- 
tioned. They are Americans in heart and soul and they believe in 
the principles which have been so fully enunciated by our President. 
They are backing our country, and they will work and cooperate with 
this committee to the fullest of their ability. 

In closing I desire to say that I appreciate the honor of having 
had this opportunity of speaking these few words. [Applause.] 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 75 

The Chairman. I am going to ask Miss Lathrop to address this 
conference for a few minutes. [Apphiuse.] 

Miss Lathrop. It is perhaps a natural enough coincidence that I 
was just wishing that I might have a chance to say something to this 
audience, but I did not for one minute thinlc that I woukl be asked 
to speak. 

I have been thinking of this war, that it is to be fought, in one 
sense, in a new way; that we are to find at the end of it. whether 
the men come back victorious or beaten, that the true test of it is 
behind the lines, in the level of life which Ave have been able to 
maintain in the families of the men who have gone to the front. If 
those men do not come back, then are those families to be weakened 
and crippled by poverty which leaves their children far. far l)elow 
the level which their fathers themselves have attained or which their 
fathers would have kept for them if thev had been alive? If the 
fathers do come back, are they to find the families suil'ering from all 
the deprivation, all the misery which those years of anxietj'^ and un- 
happiness and poverty have brought upon them? 

Is there any place in America where one can say more fittingly 
than at this place that now is the time for us to determine what the 
compensation of the soldier who goes to the front shall be? Shall 
it not be based upon a decent allowance for the soldier, a decent 
famil}'' allowance, some provision for insurance, some provision at 
every point which means that that family — Avhose welfare, in the 
long run, is going to be the test of the level of our democracy — shall 
be taken care of, and shall not sink down? [Applause.] 

The Chairman. I am going to ask Mr. George W. Perkins, presi- 
dent of the Cigarmakers' International Union of America, and a 
member of the Illinois Council of Defense, to address us for a few 
minutes. [Applause.] 

Mr. Perkins. Mr. Chairman, ladies, and gentlemen, it seems to 
me that if the lessons taught here to-day, this morning and this after- 
noon, find lodgment in the minds and hearts of the people here and 
we discharge our full duties, we shall be doing our share to conserve 
human life and human good. 

One of the representatives from the British Government this morn- 
ing told us that they found it necessary to soften up the number of 
working hours and "the number of working days over there in order 
to conserve human life. In fact, he told us that if that was not 
stopped the whole machinery of construction and production at home 
would go to smash, and with it the war as well. This afternoon the 
greatest sentiment I have heard since I have been here was given us 
by our President Avhen he said that in fighting to establish democracy 
for the peoples of the Old World, Avith a better condition for work- 
ing men and Avomen and the people generally. Ave must not destroy 
democracy or conditions here at home. That thought sank deep into 
my mind'; and I say, if we carry forAvard the lessons taught here 
to-day by the men Avho understand the movement over there and 
by the able men and Avomen Avho have advised us here, thei-e is a 
Avonderful future for this committee. 

The labor movement, as I understand it— I do not profess to speak 
for it— but I know in so far as mv own knowledge goes that thev 
first stand squarely behind our President. That is a matter ot 
record The labor movement understands the reason tor its exist- 



76 BEITISH LABOR ^S WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

ence. It has struggied hard, faithfully, and made many sacrifices 
to bring about a better condition for the working men and women. 
It stands just as loyally behind those conditions as it does behind 
our President and our country. We will stand for both, and we will 
fight for both — first for our country, yes, and secondly to maintain 
conditions that ameliorate the condition of the working men and 
women of our countr5\ [Applause.] 

The Chairman. I find myself in a quandary because I can not 
ask all who are here to address us, so that all of us, in turn, may 
receive the benefit of the advice and suggestions and appreciation; 
but it is not within the limit of our time and our endurance. But I 
can not close this session so far as addresses are concerned without 
calling upon a woman to say something, even if it be only a few 
words. For the first time in the history of America, and I think for 
the first time in the history of the whole world, a woman has been 
elected to the parliament of the country, the Congress of the United 
States ; and I ask that Miss Eankin will address this conference for 
a few minutes. [Great applause.] 

Miss Rankin. Men and women, I can not say anything to-night 
that has not already been said ; but it seems to me that we ought to 
be conscious, every one of us, that it is the workers who are going 
to fight the battle — the workers at home and the workers abroad — 
and when we are fighting this fight that we should remember always 
that we must come out of it with something greater than just the 
mere commercial values and returns that we get; that we must come 
out of it with some sort of an ideal. I do not think that the work- 
ers can ever be too conscious of the fact that this is their battle, 
that they are fighting it, that they should get the returns, and that 
they should come out with greater democracy for the workers, and 
they should come out with that exalted spirit that comes from fight- 
ing for something that is real and something that means something 
to the workers; and at the end of this fight that all the workers in 
the world will feel that they have earned their liberty, and that they 
will come out feeling that they are men and not slaves. 

Thank you. [Applause.] 

The Chairman. And now we will return to the grill. [Laughter.] 
I am sure that both questioners and respondents were in happy 
accord after the answers and the explanations had been made. 

I now, on behalf of the two labor representatives of the British 
Government, request you, if you desire, to ask anj' question in con- 
nection with the conduct of the war, and particularly as it affects 
the workers of the allied countries. The chair is ready to recog- 
nize any question. 

Mr. A. F. Bemis. Mr. Chairman, I should like to ask Mr. Thomas 
a question, which I partially asked him as he was going down this 
afternoon in the elevator, but I think perhaps the present meeting 
would be interested in his reply — in regard to the question of hours 
of work in the different industries in Great Britain under war con- 
ditions. Mr. Thomas has given you a statement in regard to the 
hours of work per week by the men and the women under the early 
conditions of the war, and has stated to you that Sunday work has 
been cut out, and some other things. I think he has not stated to 
you, however, just what the present status is in regard to the hours 
of labor in the different industries. 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 77 

I notice in the summary of the report of the British ministry of 
illunitions this statement in regard to the matter : 

The principle of \ar.ving the lumrs accordins to the eliaracter of the worlv 
aud the sex and age of tlie worlcers should be observed. 

I should like to ask Mr. Thomas to explain just how it is, under 
present conditions, that they do regulate the hours of work in the 
different industries, and in what Avay they discriminate between the 
different industries. 

Mr. Thomas. I find that in the interval between my leaving you 
and the present time you have had a sort of confessional. In our 
religious revivals we have this kind of confessionals, but it is quite 
a new experience to find it outside of a religious revival. [Laugh- 
ter.] I did not happen to hear the whole of the confessions of either 
sins of omission or sins of commission: but what I did hear has 
convinced me that both sides needed coming together, and it is very 
gratifying to us to feel that this magnificent spirit prevails in the 
early stages. 

In response to the question that has just been put, one can not 
give what you would call a straight answer, because you have got 
to consider the circumstances existing in Great Britain to-day after 
two years and a half of war, and the circumstances connected with 
the United States in its entering into the war. For instance, no 
greater mistake could be made by your GoAernment than to view 
this war from the mere standpoint of a military machine. That is 
to say, I felt early in the war, and two years ago I presented to our 
cabinet a report asking that the Nation be treated as a unit. The 
point was made by some one who was talking from the miners that 
it would be foolish to send miners if they can do more useful work 
hewing coal than fighting. In the same waj', it was madness on 
our part to send experienced engineers and machinists to France at 
a time when the supply of munitions was more essential than the 
fighting soldiers; and what you have got to keep in mind is this: 
If America's first need is to supply us with ships, then the first thing 
is to concentrate on the thing that is immediately necessary ; and if 
you found it necessary to work longer hours immediately to get over 
the temporary difficulty, say, of submarining, that is a matter that 
must be determined in considering the kind of assistance that you 
are going to render the allies. 

We, after tw^o and a half years, have found that in regulating the 
hours of men and Avomen they must be regulated according to the 
industry. For instance, if women are engaged in what we call 
T. N. T. work — what would be the definition for America of T. N. 
T. ? Well, you know Avhat it means. I understand you call it T. 
N. T.. too. "Now, there, clearly the effect of that Avork has been dis- 
astrous in manv respects to those engaged: and clearly there must 
be more restriction in the dangerous occupations than there is in less 
dangerous ones. The object of that report is not to set down any 
definite standard and sav that five or six or seven or eight or nme 
hours should be the limit, but rather to say that discretion must be 
given and due regard paid to the dangerous nature of the Avork, and, 
in accordance Avith the dangerous nature, reduce the hours and the 
conditions under Avhich the people work. That is done in the vari- 
ous industries, Avhich results in some men and some Avomen working 



78 BKCTISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

much shorter hours than others, because, as I say, of the dangerous 
nature of the occupation. 

Mr. Bemis. Mr. Chairman, I should like to ask Mr. Thomas a fur- 
ther question on this same point. 

Now, what I should like to ask Mr. Thomas is this, whether, not- 
withstanding the mistake that he said was made in going to the ex- 
treme, running 100 hours a week, for instance, in some cases, there 
may not be a certain amount of increase, say 10 per cent or 20 per 
cent per week over a temporary period of six months or a year which, 
in this tremendous strife, we might be justified in ? 

Mr. Thomas. What you put to me is this, that whilst long hours 
have proved disastrous in a long period of two and a half years, an 
urgent provision for a given thing that would limit the long hours 
to a shorter period may in the end be temporarily adopted. That 
is, shortly, your point. 

Now. there are two answers to that, it appears to me. The first 
depends on whether the machinery could be adapted to a continuous 
shift. For instance, instead of, if you like, increasing the hours to 
10 or 12, if arrangements could be made to utilize the machinery on 
two shifts instead of one without increasing the hours of the indi- 
viduals, you would there get double or perhaps treble your output: 
but that must be regulated in accordance with whether or not the 
machinery itself would stand the strain ; whether you could organize 
your factory to get a continuous running of your machinery, or 
whether you could not. That is the first point. 

The second is this, and it appears to me an essential thing to be 
done: There may be men here this afternoon — I do not know, and 
therefore I am not casting any reflections — there may be men from 
the employer's point of view that never before quite understood the 
worker's point of view in the same sense. On the other hand, there 
may be workers here who always looked upon the capitalist as an 
enemy to society, and the best place for him would be in the German 
trenches, and we fighting him from our side. [Laughter.] I 
quite concede that that is a natural characteristic of society. But 
both sides having been brought together, they find that there is 
much more good in both than they anticipated. 

Now", what I would suggest is that wherever a contingency^ arises 
such as you name, and many others that may arise, the easiest way to 
solve that problem is for both sides to take each other into their 
confidence. Let the employers show to organized labor that they have 
a case that organized labor did not understand until they had met. 
Let organized labor, on the other hand, be able to give the benefit of 
their experience to the employers. Sometimes a suggestion will get 
over the difficulty. My experience is that if both sides come together 
anxious to find a bridge, they will do it ; but if both sides keep apart, 
they will not. 

I would seriously recommend that in such a contingency as you 
name, both sides come together, face the situation, and as the result 
of the brains and experience of both sides of the question, I am sat- 
isfied you will be able to find the solution ; always keeping in mind, 
of course, that neither you nor the other is anxious to take advantage 
of the other, but both of you are anxious to serve your countr3^ 
[Applause.] 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 79 

Mr. CoLLis Lovely. Mr. Chairman, I should like to have Mr 
Thomas explain the matter of awarding contracts by the British Gov- 
ernment for the production of articles for use in the army. 

Mr, Thomas. Such as 

Mr. Lovely. My reason for asking this question is that this fore- 
noon I understood Mr. Thomas to say that if there was a scarcity of 
labor, say, in Washington— I am going to say in a shoe factory, be- 
cause I am more familiar with them than I am Avith anything else— 
and there was a surplus in New York, the surplus from New York 
would be taken to fill the vacancies in Washington, and that if a 
higher rate existed in Washington that would be the rate paid. Now, 
if the contracts were allotted or had been awarded upon the lowest 
bid, and the bid from Washington had been based upon a low scale, 
what effect would that have in your country in the matter of award- 
ing contracts ? 

Mr. Thomas. The short answer to that is that by parliamentary 
action of labor in our country we got the House of Parliament to 
adopt a fair-wage clause which compels the Government, in issuing 
a contract or inviting tenders for a contract, to make it a condition 
on the part of the individual accepting or tendering for the contract 
that he will observe to the full, in spirit and letter, what is known as 
the fair-wage clause. That fair-wage clause means that whoever the 
employer may be, whether he engages trade-union or nontrade-union 
labor, the fact of his having accepted a Government contract compels 
him immediately to put into operation the fair-wage clause, which 
means the trade-union rate in that district. By that means it equal- 
izes all employers and prevents the " sweating " employer getting an 
advantage from the Government over the good employer. [Ap- 
plause.] 

Capt. Cruse. I heard with great interest of your measures for the 
adaptation of laborers to new tasks. I should like to know whether 
your measures of selecting the people who were to be adapted to the 
new tasks have worked out to advantage, and whether you can advise 
us how we should select the laborers for adaptation to the new tasks. 

Mr, Thomas. I am afraid that when you are dealing, as we had to 
deal, with hundreds of thousands, a very strict scrutiny on selection 
is hardly possible; and therefore what really arises is that if folks, 
after a fair experience, do not find themselves adapted to a particular 
sphere of industry, the fact that they are capable of doing something 
equalizes itself by their migrating to some other field; and there- 
fore 3'ou will see, of course, that that does not apply to the selection. 
That would apply equally, we will say, to a soldier. There clearly 
can not be that selection for a soldier which comprises a million 
people that there is for the officer, whose position is a supervisory one. 
If I were engaging a man to direct m}^ factory, it would be obvi- 
ously to my advantage that very great skill and care would natu- 
rally be observed in his selection; but if I Avanted to engage 10,000 
meii, even if a thousand of them were " wrong 'uns," the balance of 
the 9.000 at least would have served my purpose. I can only say that 
if you started off with a direct measure of selection of that kind, it 
occurs to me that you would be creating an army of unnecessary 
officials who might prove themselves more unsatisfactory than the 
people they were called upon to reject. [Laughter and applause.] 



80 BEITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

Dr. Albert Shaw. Mr. Chairman, may I ask Mr. Thomas a ques- 
tion? 
The Chairman. Certainly. 

Dr. Shaw. Mr. Thomas, may I ask a question somewhat closely 
associated with two or three that you have already answered ? I have 
in mind certain manufacturers. Our Government has already ap- 
proached them and asked them to take munition contracts. Those 
contracts would not occupy the whole of their manufacturing facili- 
ties, would occupy let us say 20 per cent of their manufacturing 
facilities. These businesses are now on a 10-hour basis. The con- 
tracts that the Government would have them take would have to be 
taken, let us say, on an 8-hour basis, with time and a half for over- 
time. 

Now, those men would like to do the Government business; they 
would like to take those contracts ; they want to be patriotic ; but if 
they took those contracts on the 8-hour basis — pardon me for speak- 
ing so long, but I will state my case clearly in a few words — if 
they took those contracts, which they would have to take on the 
8-hour basis, they would be compelled to make over their entire 
factories upon an 8-hour basis, because their other men working on 
other things would probably demand the 8-hour day. These men 
are so situated at the present time that they can not make oyer their 
factories, in their own estimation, on the 8-hour day basis, with- 
out very, very serious disaster. 

That problem is not hypothetical. It is a very practical problem. 
It is a problem which at this very moment we are compelled to face 
in this country. What is the answer to a problem like that in the 
process of transition — because, of course, it is a transitional problem ? 
Mr. Thomas. If you will allow me to say so, you have succeeded in 
putting to me what is in the minds of a lot of people, but it has not 
been put quite so directly. In other words, I would be deceiving you 
if I did not know that that was at the back of many questions that 
were directed to me, and an equally burning question. [Laughter.] 
Therefore, knowing it, I am going to be quite as frank as I have been 
throughout, and try to face it ; because we would not be serving you 
and we would not be honest with you if we did not face a difficulty 
rather than skip over it, and I do not think it would be fair. 

Dr. Shaw. I am in the position of a disinterested friend, and I can 
ask a frank question. [Laughter.] 

Mr. Thomas. In other words, you can say really what you are 
quite sure others would prefer you to say than they. [Laughter and 
applause.] 

Dr. Shaw. Possibly. 

Mr. Thomas. That is diverting. Now, it is only fair to state first 
the difference between the manufacturer in this country and the 
manufacturer in our country on this particular point. The first dif- 
ference is this : The difficulty of the manufacturer here is that if he 
himself were given all war work, whilst it may be temporarily 
profitable to him, from the fact of all his business competitors not 
doing any war work they would be left free to steal the business of 
which his capital provided the basis. Now, I am putting it as fairly, 
as I can. That clearly is a great disadvantage to the manufacturer 
and one which capital and labor and the Government itself must 
fairly recognize. That did not arise in our country, for the reason 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 81 

that everybody was put on Government work, and the Government 
prohibited the export and the manufacture of nonessential things, 
and therefore when the war was over the manufacturers started on 
an equal footing and did not have the disadvantage which vour 
manufacturers have got of Brown working for the Government\nd 
bmith collaring Brown's orders. [Laughter.] 

That is the manufacturer's point of view. The second point that 
he is faced with is this: He is well aware that conditions of labor, 
like profits, is a disease, and it is contagious. [Laughter.] That 
is to say, just as you rightly say. when vou introduce into a factory 
eight hours for a given number of men the disease will spread to the 
remainder. [Laughter.] You will have to call in a doctor to deal 
with the disease of the whole. But, of course, that is not limited to 
the worker, because equally if one employer is making 10 per cent 
and the other 20 the one that is making \0 per cent is not content 
until he makes 20, so that there is no difference so far as the principle 
is concerned. But the difficulty that your Government is up against 
is this: 

If you are given an order and the order, say, is immediate and 
urgent, will only last three months and will only occupy 20 per cent 
of your staff, you are faced with the difficulty of turning down that 
order when you can not if you like, having calculated your expenses, 
take the risk of maintaining eight hours for all. Now, that is your 
problem. ' . 

There are two ways, I think, of meeting it. The first would be a 
universal eight-hour day for all, and that would put them all on an 
equal footing. [Applause.] But I am not going to skip it by as- 
suming that that is the only solution. That, I submit, would be the 
equal solution, would be the fair and equitable solution, I believe, in 
the end, because our experience with the eight-hour day is this, that 
all employers that have adopted eight hours in our country have 
never gone back to a nine-hour day, and the general experience is 
that the eight hours has proved beneficial to the employers as well 
as the emplo3^ees. 

But we are dealing with war. and the emergency it creates, and the 
general economic situation does not arise. Now, I believe, and I am 
satisfied from what has happened here to-day and what has hap- 
pened during the fortnight that Ave have been with you, that there is 
a genuine desire on the part of organized labor to meet any and every 
difficulty. That is one of the difficulties that is recognized, probably, 
as the most urgent on both sides; and I would say that the liost nnd 
the surest sign of the coming to an agreement is for you to do as 
1 said just now" in answer to another question: Let the manufacturer 
or the contractor who is faced with that problem immediately get 
in touch with the representatives of the men in that industry, come 
together, face the fact that here is the difficulty, here are the facts of 
the situation, here is the Nation's emergency, and I am satisfied that 
with give and take on both sides a bridge will be found for that. I 
have an idea our bridge could be found, but I am not dictating or 
lecturing the American people. I am giving them the benefit of our 
experience; and I am quite confident that with a desire to find a 
solution on both sides, you will find one. But I would beg of you 
not to be edging around the question, not to be assuming that the con- 

S. Doc. 84, 65-1 6 



82 BEITISH LABOR ^S WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

tracts can not be done, but let any contractor faced with that diffi- 
culty frankly send to the trades-union representatives and say, " Let 
us meet in conference to discuss this question with all the cards on 
the table." Let the employer say, " I am not desirous of taking ad- 
vantage of the war to break down something that I never believed in." 
On the other hand, let the employees say, " Whilst anxious to main- 
tain the law, we are not anxious to take advantage of the war to 
enforce something during the war that Ave could not obtain in peace 
times." With both sides recognizing that, I repeat, I believe they 
will find a solution. 

The Chairman. In connection with this point, I think it might 
prove advantageous to have a bit of information. 

The question was discussed in an informal way as to the relaxation 
or the suspension of the eight-hour provision in the contracts for 
work for the Government of the United States. As a representative 
of the working people as well as a citizen of the United States, and 
having had the experience as well as the testimony of men who have 
put the eight-hour day into operation, I was unwilling to yield the 
proposition for the universal suspension of the eight-hour workday. 
I was willing that there be an understanding between the employers 
and the workmen, and in their representative organized capacity, so 
that they would have a united voice in submitting or resisting; but 
I was also willing to have the enforcement of the eight-hour law left 
in the hands of the President of the United States. I felt that he 
would not submit to the relaxation or the suspension of that law or 
any other law which it has taken half a century to write into the 
statutes of our country without there being a real emergency, and that 
he would not submit to the hysteria, and, under the guise of patri- 
otism, the effort to drive the last ounce of energy and blood out of 
the workers, the men, and the women. 

When that position was refused, I withdrew the entire proposition. 
I did not feel warranted in offering to yield the wider scope of the 
eight-hour principle, and, by yielding, invite the employers to insist 
upon the suspension of the eight-hour workday. 

That is the thing; that is the real fact Avhich Dr. Shaw has pre- 
sented. I was confronted by the statement that the introduction of 
the eight-hour day in establishments for, say, 20, 30, 40, or 50 per 
cent of the employees would disrupt the work — the Avord " disrupt " 
was used — of the entire establishment. As a matter of fact, there are 
contractors now who are performing but 10 per cent of their work 
under the provisions of the eight-hour law, and the balance of the 
men are working nine hours a day. It has had the effect of infecting 
the other workers with the desire for an eight-hour day ; but that is 
the human aspiration, and it has no right to be curbed, particularly 
when it will make for the industrial advantage of the employer, of 
the country, of the workers, and of the industry. 

I had hoped that Mr. Henry Ford would be here to-day. He has 
accepted membership on this committee, and on last Saturday his 
general secretarj^ both telegraphed me and telephoned me and wanted 
to know whether Mr. Ford's presence was a necessity. Of course, I 
could not say that it was. The presence of any one particular person, 
the chairman included, is not a necessity ; but I thought and said that 
it would be advisable, and I regret very much that he is not here 
to-Jnight in order he might give testimony — as he has already given 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 83 

testimony— of the greater efficiency of the Avorkers under the 8- 
hoiir clay, of their greater prodnctivity. and that it has been profit- 
able to his company, profitable to the men, and has resulted in an in- 
creased production, ranging from 20 to more than 60 per cent, with 
the same group of men, with the same tools, performing the same 
work, under the 8-hour system as compared with the 10-hour system. 

It is not the destruction or the disruption of the firm or the" firm's 
interest : it is the unwillingness of some of the men to yield to what 
is a demonstrated fact aud truth. They have held to their old svstem 
so long that they are unwilling to yield and accept the truth. 'Back 
of it all is their unwillingness to meet Avith their workmen as a col- 
lective entity or Avith the representatives of the trade-unions in their 
trade. [Applause.] 

I had with me to-day documents Avhich I left in the hands of my 
secretary, and thought that I might at the start read or present them 
to the attention of the PresideiitlT I had not any time to prepare for 
an address or any remarks to the President, and what I said were the 
thoughts that came to me at the moment; but I had the documents, 
the resolutions, and the declarations on the one hand of the organized 
labor movement and the national and local trade-unions, of their 
devotion to the interests and the welfare of the country, and their 
offer of service, military or industrial, and to follow unreservedly the 
lead of the President of the United States wherever he may direct 
them to go ; and on the other hand I had the documents shoAving the 
refusal of large employers of labor to even receive a committee of 
their oavu employees in order to rectify grievances and complaints, 
the refusal to meet a committee of their oavu employees, organized or 
unorganized, organized temporarily because of the necessity of meet- 
ing this ncAv situation and the demands made upon them. I did not 
bring it to the attention of the President. I knoAv how greatly he is 
burdened with all the affairs of State, and I did not Avant to add to 
them one jot. They are going to be brought to the attention of the 
officers of the Government of the United States. They are going to 
be brought to the attention of the Council of National Defense and 
the advisory commission. 

I say this uoaa' — conscious of all the responsibility of the utter- 
ance — ^that Ave are not going to give up our liberty. [Oreat ap- 
plause.] We are not going to give up our rights. The right of 
self-defense is inherentin us. I believe that the fight we are mak- 
ing and are Avilling to make is in self-defense of the Republic of the 
United States. The Eepublic can not endure Avith the Imperial 
German Government's policy. [Great applause.] They can not 
coexist. What matters it to' the men of labor if, in the struggle 
for the freedom and the democracy of the United States, Avhile that 
struggle is going on, chains in the guise of slavery are fastened upon 
them i 1-1 

We Avill give service, and probably we Avill ignore the insults 
and the injirstice Avhich is attempted to be inflicted upon us. Only 
this afternoon I had the statement made to me that m one of the 
Government arsenals the commandant there, or one of the under- 
strappers (I do not know his title or his name), when a committee 
of the emplovees in that department undertook to meet him, re- 
quested him to meet them, said he would not talk with them. He 
said- "You are not civilians. You are in the military service ot 



84 BRITISH LABOR ^S WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

the country ; and yon will do as you are told, and I will not consider 
anything that you may want to present." 

Now, that is not the proper spirit. That spirit tends to disrup- 
tion and division; and our movement and this committee more than 
anything else is undertaking to mobilize the good will of all the 
people of this country. It is our function. We will furnish our 
men, we will furnish the soldiers — they will be the soldiers and the 
men in the Navy^ — the other men will work and the women will 
work. We will all do our share in every way we possibly can ; but 
we are going to insist that the Government of the United States 
shall not be a party to the encouragement of this antagonism and 
this genius of profiteering, and having nothing else in view, and 
using the term " patriotism " simply as a lip utterance, and having 
no responsive part in their hearts. [Applause.] 

The employers of labor must come to realize that this labor move- 
ment is not a mushroom growth overnight. It has been the devel- 
opment of decades. It has been the result of the misery and the 
struggles and the scars of generations, aye, of centuries. The labor 
movement is not going to be and can not be swept out of exist- 
ence. We have had some experience with this attempt, and we have 
been growing stronger and more powerful in numbers and I hope in 
influence as time went on, and despite the struggles. We have 
learned in the meantime and during our growth the responsibilities 
which rest upon us, the responsibilities expressed to-daj^ hj one of our 
British friends who has come amongst us, when he said that we 
must impress upon the employers and upon the employees, upon the 
organized workmen and employers, that whatever the agreement 
may be, when reached it shall be honorably enforced by both. 

There comes this question: Men and women have organized in 
their trades-unions, and, in agreement with employers, have estab- 
lished wages, rates of pay, hours, labor conditions, covering a period, 
say, of two or three years. In the meantime the cost of living has 
gone up probably 60 or TO and in some instances more than 100 
per cent, and the employers have sold the finished product at prob- 
ably 50, 60, or a greater per cent than at the time when the agree- 
ment was made with the workmen. What are the workmen going 
to do during that period? What are the workwomen going to do 
during that period ? As a matter of fact, whenever the cost of living 
has increased, say, 50 per cent, and there has been no corresponding 
increase in wages, it has meant a reduction of wages, a reduction of 
the purchasing power of wages. There must be some consideration 
of these conditions, or you will spread such a feeling of discontent 
that you do not know where it is going to lead. 

I am sure I did not intend to say what I have said; but, like the 
Friend or the Quaker, " the spirit moved me," and I said it. [Laugh- 
ter and applause.] 

Col. Isaac Ullman. When you speak of eight hours a day. how 
many hours a week does that mean? 

Mr. Thomas. Forty-eight. 

Col. Ullman. How do you work it if jon have a half holiday? 

Mr. Thomas. The Saturday afternoon holiday is a long-estab- 
lished custom in the old country. 

Col. Ullman. I know that. 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 85 

Mr. Thomas. The result is, when we talk of eight hours per day, 
we do not mean six days consecutive eight hours. It works out nine 
and a half for five days in the week, or whatever it may be, and the 
short day of Saturday. 

Col. Ullman. I see. That is what I wanted to know. 

While I am on my feet, I might add this, not in the nature of re- 
plying to any of your remarks; but I do hope that you have not any 
idea that all the employers of labor are trying to '* do '" the laboring 
man at this time. That is rather what you intimate, and I trust 

The Chairman. Pardon me; if I have left that impression upon 
the mind of any man or woman here, I hope I may have the oppor- 
tunity of correcting it, because that is not what Iineant to convev. 
I know that the employers generally are fair-minded and fair dealing. 

Col. Ullman. I hope you feel that way, because I believe at a time 
like this nobody has a patent on patriotism; and the employers. I 
think you will find, as a general proposition are as patriotic as the 
employees; and I have not the slightest doubt that vice versa will 
be also the case. 

As to this question of collective bargaining, I am not going to argue 
with you, but I would say this to you: I have been connected with 
our concern now 40 years. It is 40 years this month since I entered 
our factory, and I have grown up with our people. Our factory is 
not organized. Various attempts have been made to organize it. all 
of which have thus far failed. I stood in front of the factory two 
years ago Avhen a meeting had been advertised to be held in the no<m 
hour at the public square, a block and a half from our factory, and 
people held large signs at the exits calling attention to the fact. Our 
employees, as they went out, said, " Why do we want to go to the 
meeting? " We have 1,800 employees. There Avere 35 present at the 
meeting. Now, you do not understand, I think, our standpoint, and 
perhaps I do not understand yours. 

The secretary of our trade council, who was a schoolmate of mine, 
called on me some time ago and discussed the question with me; 
and after talking with me for a Avhile he said : '* You used to be a 
fine fellow some years ago, but lately, now^ that you have been as- 
sociated with the plutocrats, you can not see our point of view." I 
said to him : " If you worked as many hours a day as I do. you 
would really be a workman." Now, that is our different point of view, 
you knoAv. You do not quite understand ours, and perhaps I do not 
understand yours. But the fact is, Mr. Gompers, if I may say so 
frankly, as 1 said before, I think, as our friend Thomas said this 
morning, this is a game of give and take. The manufacturer must 
give Avay for the best interests of the country : and there may come a 
time Avhen, in the game of give and take, neither side cnn take all 
and give nothing; and^b^th sides. I am afraid and I hope, will both 
give and take at the propef time for the best interests of the country. 
[Applause.] 

Mr. Brady. Mr. Chairman', I should like to have Mv. rhomii- or 
one of his colleagues inform me, in the event that there is any disi)ute 
betAveen the emplovers and the employees, and this arbitratu)n board 
is not able to bring the tAvo sides together, does the (Government (m 
one hand step in and sav to the Avorkers. " You nuist continue to work 
and supply the necessities," or does it on the other hand, in the event 
that t»he employers are not willing to come around, take over the 



86 BRITISH LABOR S WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAIST LABOR. 

plants and operate them until such time as the employers are willing 
to concede what seems to be a fair deal to the workers in those estab- 
lishments? 

Mr. Thomas, The first fallacj^ of the proposition is j^our assump- 
tion that what was a grievance under a private employer ceased to be 
a grievance when it became a Government emploj^er. You see the 
fallacy of such a suggestion. That is all right; you will see that I 
am following you in a moment. You may not have stated your case 
as you intended, but that was the impression. What you said was, 
supposing there is a dispute, a grievance, and the employer does not 
rectify the grievance, and the board of arbitration does not rectify 
the grievance. Does the Government step in, then, and wipe away 
the employer and the men continue work until some solution is 
found ? 

I am pointing out to you that that presupposes that the men would 
work under the same grievance if it was a Government employer 
that they would not work under if it was a private emploj^er. But 
at all events what you want to know, I presume, is. What is the exact 
machinery for settling a dispute by arbitration? 

Now, the munitions act that I. explained this afternoon does not 
apply to every industry. It only applies to those engaged in essen- 
tial war work. But ycu can quite conceive that there comes up the 
question of the definition of vvar work. A man may be making mu- 
nitions, and that is war work; but if the carrier who was conveying 
the munitions went on strike and no one could carrj^ the munitions 
awa}^ they would be useless. You can see that the carrying of the 
munitions is as essential as the making of them. You see that point. 
Therefore, although the man wdio is carrying the munitions and all 
these others are not under the munitions act, the Government by 
statute has the power to proclaim any industry within the munitions 
act: that is to say, that all the industries are not scheduled, as you 
call it, under the munitions act, but bj^^ proclamation the Government 
can bring into that schedule am^ industr3^ whatever it may be. 

Now, then, there is a dispute, say, between the engineers and their 
employers and they ask for a 6 shillings per week advance in their 
wages to cover the increased cost of living — because I beg of you to 
distinguish that point. There has been no changed wage condition 
in our country since the day the war broke out. Now, keep that 
clearly at the back of your mind. Strong and powerful as we are, 
there has been no changed wage condition, no changed labor condi- 
tions. That does not mean that there have not been large increases 
of wages, because, as I explained to you, in the case of my own organi- 
zation we have gotten 15 shillings per week increase in wages ; but all 
the advances are not based upon the services rendered, but upon the 
fact that the increased cost of living has reduced the spending value 
of the money, which is an entirely different thing. If you were going 
to argue conditions of service, you would naturally point out the 
technicalities of your work, the urgency of your work, and the special 
method of labor applied to your work. None of those things arise. 
The only thing that arises in considering conditions of service now 
is the spending power of the sovereign. So I hope you will distin- 
guish between the two. 

Therefore, what the tribunal that is set up has to consider is not 
whether the engineer or the machinist is doing important, work, 



BRITISH LABOR S WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 87 

not whether the toohiiaker is doing very essential work, but whether 
the toolmaker's wages or the machinist's wages or the engineer's 
wages have risen proportionately to the increase in the cost of living. 
Therefore, this board of arbitration that I have already described 
settles the question entirely upon that basis. The committee is com- 
posed, not of employers, not of employees, but of men of judicial 
minds, independent of both sides. We are urging that it would be 
advantageous if it were composed of a direct representative of labor, 
a direct representative of capital, and an independent person as 
arbiter between the two. In many of our forms of conciliation and 
arbitration boards that is the tribunal now. But the machinery of the 
munitions act definitely prevents the employees striking whilst they 
are engaged on war work. Clearly that was the object of the mu- 
nitions act, as I explained to you this afternoon. 

Mr. Brady. That is just what I wanted to bring out — if the workers 
had a right to quit if they did not like the award made by this Gov- 
ernment board, or whether they were compelled to continue under 
pain of punishment. 

The Chairman. That question has been answered. 

Mr. Heavitt. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Thomas, through your address 
this morning and through your answers to the questions, the domi- 
nant note running through it all is cooperation. I hope that that 
cooperation will iDe exemplified by those representing the men and 
women of this country when we leave here to-night. I was unable to 
hear all of your address this morning, and perhaps you have covered 
the point I have in mind. 

You said something about the men, the workers of Great Britain, 
volunteering to do munition work. The thought occurred to me that 
there are others who did not volunteer to do this work. I should like 
to know from you whether there are any restrictive measures placed 
upon the freedom of those who did not volunteer to do munition work 
to move about from place to place and seek employment in one city 
or another? 

The Chairman. That has been answered. 

Mr. Thomas. No; there is no industrial compulsion in the 
country — none whatever. 

Dr. Meeker. I should like to ask by what methods contract prices 
are regulated as wages advance to meet the advance in the cost of 
living. That is a very practical diiRculty that confronts us here now 
in the making of contracts. I have been asked to devise a means of 
meeting that difficulty, and I want to know how you have met it. 

Mr. Thomas. The" first point is that general experience proves 
that just as trades-unionism (which means combination) is advan- 
tageous to the workers and enables them to help each other, so capi- 
tal, which sometimes denounces the methods of trades-unionism, has 
a much more perfect organization than those it condemns. Ihe 
general experience of anvone who has had to deal with contracts is 
that the difference is often in form more than anything else. 1 
have had verv large experience in dealing with contracts, because i 
was the chairman of a municipality for a number of years, and my 
experience showed that there was very little difference m the pric^ 
and the contractors generally knew the exact situation and made 
preparations for it. 



SI 8 BKITISH LABOR ^S WAE MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

So far as the Government is concerned, however — well, I am talk- 
ing of my own country, and it is easier, from our point of view on 
the other side, for this reason : As I said this morning, and as it 
was explained to you, there are 5,000 controlled establishments; that 
is to say, where the Government have taken the whole of the plant, 
the whole of the machinery, they have not put men in to work them, 
but they have said to that firm, " Whatever your net earnings of 1913 
or 1914 may have been, prewar, we will guarantee those earnings to 
you, plus 20 per cent more." Not 20 per cent more dividend. Do 
not confuse the point, but 20 per cent increase on the net return for 
the year, with also an allowance for depreciation. 

Now, lest some one should say, " That is a good deal for the capi- 
talist," it is only fair to point out this : I can quite understand that 
there would be a criticism in saying, " Well, they are doing all 
right." On balancing the considerations I do not think they are, 
for this reason. I will give a simple illustration. 

Suppose I was at the head of an aeroplane factory, where before 
the war there was no especial demand for aeroplanes, and my return 
on a £50,000 capital, by way of an argument, was £2,000 net. Sup- 
pose that was the position. I produced every year, or the year prior 
to the war, 50 aeroplanes, by way of a simple illustration; but I 
have the capacity in my stores, in my works and factory, to produce 
a thousand aeroplanes. The war has created a demand for aero- 
planes. You see how absurd it would be, if the additional plant 
was producing 1,000 aeroplanes as against 50, to say that my profits 
must be regulated absolutelv to a turnover of 50 as compared with 
1,000. 

I am giving this illustration for the benefit of our labor friends, 
so that they may see that whilst at first sight there may be a ten- 
dency to assume that this is an extraordinarily good bargain it 
will be seen that there must be some inducement to increase the pro- 
duction, or there would be no incentive whatever to do it. That 
was the arrangement that was the basis upon which these firms were 
controlled. There are very few contracts in munitions given out. 
I have already explained why. But in other forms of Government 
contracts, the fair-wage clause covers the point that you raise, be- 
cause the employers, whoever they may be, on tendering have all got 
to take into consideration the fact that there is the fair-wage clause 
inserted, and that naturally compels them to recognize the district 
rate. 

Dr. Meeker. But suppose the rate of wages in the district goes up ? 

Mr. Thomas. You do not go to a revision of wages every two 
weeks or every two months, you see. You can quite understand that 
it would be absurd. There would be nothing else to do. The usual 
period for revision, based upon the cost of living, has now been estab- 
lished at four quarterly periods of three months, and the contractors 
are sufficiently alive to tender for the contracts to cover the period 
of the three months; and you will readily see that they then know 
the calculation of the wage increase for that period. 

Dr. Meeker. That is the point I wanted to bring out. 

Mr. D'Alessandro. Mr. Chairman. I listened to what was said this 
forenoon, and this point Avas not very clear to me : Mr. Thomas made 
the remark that before the European conflict his organization had 
so many members, but after this conflict began his organization in- 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 89 

creased numerically, which we have not. Was it compulsory to join 
the union, or voluntary to come in. I should like to know? ^ 

Mr. Thomas. No; it was voluntary; but like everybody else, in 
coming over here, knoAving the submarine menace. T took the pre- 
caution to get an additional life belt. The workers in general have 
at last awakened to the fact that the trades-union provides the life 
belt for them, and they are at last clinging to the life belt. [Ap- 
plause.] 

Mr. Golden. Mr. Chairman, can Mr. Thomas stand another ques- 
tion? 

Mr. Thomas. Oh, yes; with pleasure. 

Mr. Golden. I want to follow up the question asked by the presi- 
dent of the Cotton Manufacturers' Association, Mr. Bemis. What 
action or what machinery Avould be put into motion by the British 
Government if a case of this kind occurred: Our friend the shoe- 
maker gave an illustration, but as I am a textile man I will confine 
mine to the textile industry. 

Suppose a large manufacturing textile plant took a contract from 
the British Government to supply a large textile order within a given 
time, say three months, and suppose it was discovered that this 
textile plant could not fill that order unless it reduced its standards, 
unless it lengthened the hours. I do not know whether you have 
had any of these cases or not, but I am afraid we will have them 
here, because there is a movement on foot noAv by the southern cot- 
ton manufacturers, and the southern Congressmen and Senators are 
being flooded with requests to suspend the national child-labor law 
until the end of the war because they need the work of the children. 
Now, what would be the action of the British Government if a textile 
manufacturer took a contract, and it was discovered afterwards that 
he could not fill that contract unless he changed his standards? 

Mr. Thomas. The first answer to your question is this: As has 
been made clear many times to-day, reactionary people will always 
take advantage of reaction; and therefore I am bound to say that 
with all the great resources of the United States, serious as is the 
position of the allies. I can not conceive that the assistance the United 
States can give to the allied cause is dependent upon any alteration 
in the child-laboj- laws of this country. [Great applause.] In any 
case, I should feel that we were indeed hard up if we have got to 
arrive at that stage. 

What would happen in the emergency you mention is that in every 
contract there are certain penalties provided for the nonfulfillment 
of that contract. If the employer was able to give a legitimate ex- 
planation, clearly any sound and sane and honest and common-sense 
person, whether "he be a Government official or not (if that type does 
exist in Government circles) would accept the explanation. [Laugh- 
ter.] But, on the other hand, if the only excuse that the manufac- 
turer could offer would be the abrogation of the child-labor laws of 
the country. I can hardly conceive of that being a satisfactory expla- 
nation. • 11 1 1 

Mr. STILI.MAN. Mr. Chairman, as a teacher I am espet-ially glad to 
have a chance to ask Mr. Thomas a question, because wo have grown 
accustomed to looking at England as a Mecca— England, the 
country where the organized teachers have a member of Pailianient 
of their own, where all the teachers are members of the organi/.a- 



90 BRITISH LABOR S WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

tion, which I understand is called the National Union of Teachers, 
or " Nuts " for short. [Laughter.] To make the poignancy of that 
contrast clear, let me just interpolate that in Chicago membership in 
a labor-union is now legal ground for " firing " a teacher. The 
chairman has spoken about mobilizing labor's good will. Chicago 
would furnish some material. 

In a footnote to the report of your munitions investigating com- 
mittee, the statement is made that in March, 1916, over 8,000 children 
under 14 were excluded from the operation of the compulsory-attend- 
ance law to do war work, and that over half of those 8,000 were under 
13. From another statement you made this afternoon that condition 
has evidently been remedied since; but I want to ask your judgment 
concerning the hysteria that is sweeping over this country now. They 
want to take the children out of school and put them on farms where 
nothing is known of the conditions, where they may sleep in filth and 
live in filth; and even in our higher education there are some insti- 
tutions that have allowed 80 per cent of the students to enlist, and 
there is considerable doubt as to whether they will reopen next fall 
or not. Now, a great many of those men would double or treble in 
value with two or three years of additional training. Is it not your 
judgment that in this country we should realize more than even in 
times of peace the value of education and should short-cut all such 
waste of human material ? 

Mr. Thomas. I must correct your interpretation of the teacher's 
position in Great Britain, It is true that they have a labor member 
of Parliament, and it is true that they are well organized ; but it is 
also true that they are so aristocratic in their tendencies that they 
prefer to call themselves a profession rather than labor [laughter], 
with the result that they have been more concerned in having 2 inches 
of line on their necks, even if they had to have an advertise- 
ment for somebody's liver pills to keep it up. [liaughter.] The un- 
fortunate result has been that, strongly organized as they are, by be- 
ing disassociated from the great labor movement they have not re- 
ceived advances equi^'alent to the navvy in the old country since the 
war commenced; and we attribute it to that class-conscious prejudice 
that we hope your presence here is the best evidence that you, at least, 
do not possess. [Laughter and applause.] 

Having stated that, I will add that I gave the answer to your ques- 
tion this afternoon when I said that the same demand had gone up, 
especially from the farmers, who were crying out that they wanted 
child labor, and all that ; but if there is one class of the community 
more than another in our country that has failed to rise to the 
national emergency it has been the farmers. It has been one of the 
scandals that they are the people who have made their sons plowmen 
and cowmen Only in name, because that name happened to get them 
exemption from military service. Therefore, in the main, while the 
demand has gone up, fortunately it has not been acceded to. 

In the case you mentioned about the boys and girls of 14, we have 
a school standard over there that provides what is called a labor test. 
That is to say, the curriculum makes provision that when a boy or 
girl, regardless of age, provided they are over 13, but regardless other 
than that, can pass the labor test (which I think is the fifth standard 
test in our schools), they are enabled by that means to get exemption; 
and that is the reference to the thousands that you mention. I agree 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 91 

with you, and I will say that the statement by our minister of educa- 
tion (who, by the Avay, is a very practical man, one of the great educa- 
tional authorities of the country) shows that the old country is abso- 
lutely awakened to the fact that "the great struggle of the future, what- 
ever the result of the war, is to be a struggle of brains and educa- 
tion. An educated child is an asset to the community. An ignorant 
democracy is a danger. [Applause.] 

Mr. Stillman. I should like to put myself square by saying that 
hereafter I will be more enthusiastic in the organized engineers than 
the unorganized teachers. [Laughter.] 

Dr. Meeker. I think we would like to hear something about the 
employment or labor exchanges. Is it true that the employment 
exchanges are the only means of shifting labor from place to place, 
and of labor getting employment when it is unemployed ? 

Mr. Thomas. Absolutely the reverse. First, you want to under- 
stand what the labor exchanges are, and why they Avere brought into 
existence. They are not the creation of the war, but they were made 
part of what is called tiie insurance act. There are two sections of the 
insurance act. I will not deal with the first, because that deals with 
jnedical benefit, sanitarium benefit, sickness provision, and such like : 
but another part was an insurance against unemployment. That is 
to say, it compelled the worker to make some provision during times 
of prosperity for times of adversity ; and although I know that there 
were at the commencement differences of opinion, and there may be 
differences of opinion here, the whole of the organized trades-union 
movement took possession of that act, worked it themselves, and it 
has been one of the best means of maintaining our strength, because 
our men register by us, and we pay the State unemployment benefit 
through our own funds and claim it back from the State: and that is 
why it has strengthened and consolidated our movement. But as a 
part of that unemployed benefit there were set up labor exchanges in 
every town, district, and hamlet. The object of those exchanges was 
to provide a means whereby an employer looking for a man may ob- 
tain the man (the man or woman, of course), and the man or woman 
looking for a job may obtain the job. 

You can quite conceive that there may be somebody walking the 
streets of Washington looking for a job, and an employer wanting 
a man of that capacity, but neither of them knowing of the other's 
existence, and therefore no means of bringing both applicants to- 
gether. By employers registering for men that they want, and by 
employees registering when they are unemployed, that provided the 
means' of communication between the two: in addition to which there 
may be, again, to give an illustration, a man out of a job at Washing- 
ton, and work for him in New York. Our experience proved that 
many a poor mortal tramped from town to town and street to street 
only to find no method of getting employment when he got there. 
Instead of that happening now, under the exchange system he can go 
to the exchange, they will call up New York and ascertain Avhether 
there is a job to be'obtained for this man at New York, what the 
conditions "are, and advanced him his fare to go to New York, and 
save all of the tramping and misery that results from a fruitless jour- 
ney under the old system. 

That was the meaning and briefly the obiect of the labor exchanges. 
I have told you that we took charge of it in the trades-union move- 



92 BEITISH LABOR S WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

ment. We have paid the unemployed benefit, and our own unem- 
ployed books are kept at the labor exchange, and our trades-unionists- 
go there and register in their own trades-union book, and the Govern- 
ment accepts that book as the record upon which to pay the man hi& 
unemployed benefit. If an employer wants a man, in addition to the 
exchange, in the main, he goes to the trades-union secretary and asks 
him what men he has got on his books, and he supplies them. The 
labor exchange during the war has been used for the purpose of 
dealing with these munition volunteers that I explained about this 
afternoon; that is to say, registering the men who were prepared 
to offer their services to work in New York or Washington. 

Whatever criticisms may be made against the labor exchange as a 
system of red tape, please keep in mind that it was organized to 
deal with that evil and disease inherent in an industrial system that 
in one period of the year found a million and a quarter people out of 
work when work could be provided for them, and it has at least 
provided some medium of dealing with that particular disease. 
[Applause.] 

Mr. Alifas. Mr. Chairman, one of the great questions that we have 
to deal with at the present time is the continual changing relations 
between the wages that men receive and the cost of living. If there 
is one point possibly more strongly expressed here than any other, it 
is that we ought to endeavor to maintain existing standards or stand- 
ards as existing at the outbreak of the war. It is also regarded as an 
unpatriotic act for workmen to ask for advances in wages. It is 
regarded as unpatriotic for employers to endeavor to make aggres- 
sions on the workmen during these times, but there is a bodv of 
middle-class people or middle men, or whoever it is that fixes prices,, 
that is continually changing this relation that we ought possibly to 
be endeavoring to stabilize. Has anything been done in Great Brit- 
ain to deal with that subject on the cost of living? 

Mr. Thomas. Let me explain. Mr. Garrod just tells me that the- 
question was asked him about the working-labor exchanges. Unless 
there should be any confusion, the suggestion you put was, Could 
people only be employed through the labor exchanges? I will ex- 
plain to you that it is not, and the limitation that he explained ta 
you this afternoon only applied to those on war work. I presumed 
you understood that. Now you ask me about the increased cost of 
living; what method has been attempted to be dealt with. 

Mr. Alifas. To maintain existing standards, and of course that 
means the purchasing power and not more wages. 

Mr. Thomas. We need not argue what wages mean, because we all 
agree when we talk about $30 a week, and it seems a little when we 
talk about 50 shillings. The obvious calculation we make is, how 
much do you get for your $30 and how much do we get for our 50- 
shillings, and the margin between the two is the relative margin be- 
tween your prosperity and our adversity. The thing that matters 
is the purchasing power of the money. When the war broke out 
prices went up. I told you that there was a mines-regulation bill 
that prohibited the selling price of coal to be more than 4 shillings 
from the pit's mouth. I told you about the rents bill. There has 
since been appointed a food controller, who fixes the price of bread^, 
of milk, and of potatoes. It is a remarkable fact that you in the 
United States are paying more for a loaf that you send to us from 



BRITISH LABOURS WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 93 

the United States than we pay on the other side for it or even they 
pny in Paris. That is a fact, but it is due to very many causes, the 
iirst being the mad policy of France, Enghand, Italy, and com- 
petiti^'e allies bidding here for foodstuffs and munitions 

One of the greatest faults of the whole situation has been that rep- 
resentatives of our own Government have been filling the pockets 
<if you American people by bidding against each other instead of 
forming a combine and making a fair deal with you, with the result 
that it has had this effect upon your markets. Whatever the result 
of competition in raising prices may have been, you, on the other 
hand, have been governed by the prices which we have been sending 
up by our mad action, and, of course, people have been profiting by it. 

But I want now to pay a tribute here to the cooperative movement 
that has developed magnificently in our country since the war, and 
that has been the one steadying force against all the high prices. 
We found this in favor in South Wales: There was an agreement by 
the bakers and the millers that the millers must not be allowed, by this 
agreement, to supply flour to any baker who did not charge the 
tigreed price for the loaf, and if he reduced the loaf a half penny for 
4 pounds, he was not allowed to have his flour supplied by the miller. 
So, you can see the kind of combination that had to be dealt with, 
and it was dealt with by the appointment of a food controller. 
Frankly, it is not true, and Ave would be making a mistake as workers 
if we put the whole increased cost of living down to profit taking. 

Do you keep in mind that it is a world problem. For instance, take 
potatoes. I dare say j-ou know, that for reasons one can not explain, 
There Avas a disease, not only in Ireland, which affected us, but in 
Oanada and America and, so far as I can ascertain, almost through- 
out the world, a disaster that affected the potato crop. As you know, 
it was a bad harvest for wheat, and all these factors, coupled with 
a shortage of tonnage in our country, which does not exist here, ali 
things tended to raise the prices. How you Avill be able to deal Avith 
it I do not knoAv, except this, and I understand you Avill correct me 
if I am Avrong, that by your system of 48 States, your parliamentary 
act prevents you from interfering with the local autonomy in certain 
matters of each of those States unless the defense of your Nation is" 
involved, and, therefore, Avhatever the States themselves have done 
the Washington Government could not have interfered with, Avhilst 
jon Avere a neutral country, but noAV that you have become a belliger- 
ent country and you are at Avar, it is within the jurisdiction of this 
parliament at W^ashington to see that the interests of the country as 
11 Avhole are looked after, and by that means you will probably be en- 
abled to interfere Avith those particular States. 

With all deference to our history, I put that to you as one of your 
propositions and one of your questions which, if you are alive and on 
the job and on the alert you Avill have to deal with. If you remain 
quiet the other people Avill be taking advantage of it and, therefore, 
my advice is to be on the alert and get the right thing done at the 
right time. 

The Chairman. There are a feAv announcements to be made and 
suggestions. It appeals to me that for the Avhole day Ave have had 
enough questioning, but there may be other opportunities to put 
questions to the gentlemen from Great Britain. But in any event, 
even if they maA^^be required to leave for their OAvn country earlier 



94 BEITISH LABOR "S WAE MESSAGE TO AMERICAlSr LABOR. 

than we hope they may leave, may I suggest that any of you, ladies 
or gentlemen, feeling prompted to have information, if you will 
write a question, or a series of questions, and address them to me, I 
will see that so long as these gentlemen are in the United States they 
will be furnished with copies of the questions and I will ask them to 
reply to me aiid the answers will be forwarded and be made a part 
of the record of this meeting. 

I would like to present to the labor representatives of Canada 
copies of a declaration adopted by the executive committee of the 
committee on labor, and approved by the Council of National De- 
fense, upon the effort to stabilize and standardize and maintain 
standards. Unfortunately the press of the country undertook, if I 
may coin the phrase, to sensualize the declaration and misinterpret 
its intent and purpose, and we found it necessary to recommend to 
the Council of National Defense, and that council approved, an ani- 
plification of the declaration. I would be very glad to give copies 
of that to you gentlemen, and to as many of you who care to have 
them, providing we have a sufficient number of copies to go around. 
The executive committee of the committee on labor w^ill be advised 
that inasmuch as the members of the executive committee have been 
in attendance here all day and evening, and that they are busy men, 
having big matters to give their attention to, after consultation with 
them I announce that the meeting set for to-morrow has been de- 
ferred, and I shall invite you probably so that we might meet on 
Tuesday, a week from to-day, or perhaps earlier if any emergency 
should arise. 

The committee on mediation and conciliation, under the chairman- 
ship of Mr. Everett Macy, will meet in this room to-morrow morning 
at 10 o'clock. Mr. Morrison, the chairman of the committee on wages 
and hours, will meet with his committee a week from to-day at 10 
o'clock in this hall; that is. providing the executive committee does 
not meet on that day. The various committees and individual 
committees on welfare work, and the various portions of that welfare 
work, protection, safety, etc.. will please submit some report for 
us on or before Saturday. Mr. Coolidge will receive these reports 
and submit them to me for such condensation as may be necessary, 
and report to the Council of National Defense and the advisory com- 
mission. 

Mr. Guggenheim. Might I offer a resolution of thanks for the 
very brilliant manner in which we have been enlightened by the com- 
mittee ? 

The Chairman. First offer your motion, and if it is not repug- 
nant to the purposes of this meeting, I will be glad to entertain it, 
but I can not rule in advance. 

Mr. Guggenheim. That is the motion, a resolution of thanks for 
the very brilliant manner in which we have been enlightened by the 
commission from abroad. 

(The motion was duly seconded and unanimously carried.) 

The Chairman. Gentlemen, on my own behalf, and on behalf of 
the committee on labor, I extend to you the great appreciation and 
gratitude of us all for the brilliant enlightenment and illuminating 
manner in which you have fulfilled the mission for which you were 
sent to this country. [Applause.] 



BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMEEICIN LABOR. 95 

I am sure that after we have heard these men you can understand 
the justification and the gratification I feel when I asked Lloyd- 
George to send the first delegation here, and asked the Dominion 
prime minister to send their delegation here. They came here and 
their work is not finished. If I can prevail upon them, they are 
going to stay in the United States for some little longer time. 
[Applause.] 

We need these men. Let me tell you, if for no other reason, we need 
these two. Our own people do not yet understand that we are at 
war and that means employers and workmen and business men. We 
have not felt the tinge and the pain and we have not made many 
sacrifices thus far. The blood of our brothers and sons has not yet to 
any extent been shed — the lives of but few have been lost. We will 
get that, I am afraid, and yet not afraid, for fighting means sacrifice. 
I have all my life, from my early boyhood until just al^out two years 
and three month ago, I woidd take second position to no man on 
earth in my declaration and feeling of pacifism. I did not believe, as 
I think you never believed, that in the year of grace 191-1 there could 
be inaugurated a war of such terrible dimensions and involving so 
many people and so many countries. I was under the impression 
that we had reached that point Avhen a great international war had 
been forever impossible. But the time came and I had to revise my 
judgment. When a marauding gang of murderers comes down the 
street and accosts you and your family, your friends and your 
neighbors, you must come to a realizing sense that that gang must be 
either captured or destroyed. So it is with the policy of the work and 
the murder conducted under the Imperial Government of Germany. 
That must be destroyed, and in that fight it will cost us much. After 
it all will be over, and when the triumph of democracy has been 
firmly established, we will look back, those of us who shall survive it. 
or our children, our children's children will look back upon the fight 
which we have made in our day, and just as Americans now look 
upon the great heroes of our Revolution with pride if we can con- 
nect, even in the remotest, some member of our families, and ties of 
relationship, who have done some service in that revolutionary war. 
Who is not proud if he can find some trace of some man who did 
something in service for the maintenance of the Union, of the Repub- 
lic of the L'nited States, and for the abolition of human slavery ^ 
Who is it among all of us who is not proud of our work in seeing that 
independence and freedom from the tyrannous yoke of Spain in 
the establishment of the little Republic of Cuba? 

So, in the great day's work of our everyday life the most won- 
derfully high-minded members are involved in our great struggle. 
It is a great price we are going to pay for the purchase of the per- 
manent, perpetual right to live our own lives, to work out our own 
destinies, to give the peoples of the various countries the opportiini- 
ties to liA^e their own lives and work out their own destinies. Yes- 
terday these gentlemen visited with me the building of the Pan 
American Union located in Washington, seeing the wonderful things 
that are there displayed, and we came to the room where is provided 
a table around which are chairs for the representatives of the various 
countries constituting the Republics of the Americas. The highest 
official representatives of those countries, 21 in all, sit there m con- 
ference once a month at least, and oftener when any exigency arises. 



96 BRITISH LABOR S WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

The representatives of those Governments discuss the things, the 
matters, and the affairs for the mutual advantage of the people of 
those Pan American Republics. What the achievements have been 
I shall not at this late hour attempt to describe, but it is true that ex- 
ternal and international difficulties have been overcome and wars pre- 
vented between several of the Pan American countries which would 
certainly have occurred had this tribunal not been in existence. 

I am not using my own thought, but simply repeating, but yet it 
has been my daydream and my life hope that out of this struggle and 
war there may be established for the free governments of the w^orld 
the democracies, the nations of the world, either here or elsewhere 
in some other country, a tribunal composed of the representatives 
of the various countries of the world, and then come to a realization 
of the intenseness of the dream, a parliament of man, a federation of 
the world. Until then, at least for the time being, I am repeating 
the slogan of Thomas Payne in the critical hour in the history of the 
Revolution : " Now is the time that tries men's souls." 

I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your attendance 
here to-day. 

(Thereupon, at 11 o'clock p. m., the meeting adjourned.) 



LIST OF- MEMBERS AND GUESTS OF THE COMMITTEE 
ON LABOE, PRESENT AT THE PUBLIC MEETING OF 
MAY 15/ 



The cliairinan, Samuel Gompers, president American FeiUraliuii of Labor. 

Right Hon. C. W. Bowernian, privy councilor and nieinl)er of Britisli Hoiisi' of 
Commons, secretary of British Trades Union ('ongress parliamentary com- 
mittee. 

James H. Thomas, member of Parliament, general secretary National T'liion of 
Raihva.v Men. 

Joseph Davies. member of the secretariat of the prime minister. 

H. W. Garrod, representing labor, department of ministry of munitions. 

G. D. Robertson, vice president National Association of Railway Tele.i;raphers. 

J. C. Waters, president Trades and Labor Council of Canada. 

Judge INIaurice Sheldon Amos of the Balfour commission. London. England. 

N. I'. Alifas. president District 44. International Association of ^Machinists, 
Washington. L). C. 

J. F. Anderson, vice president International Association of .Machinists. Wash- 
ington, D. C. 

Mary Anderson, organizer Boot and Shoe Workers' L'nion. Chicago, 111. 

Secretary Charles R. Atherton, Metal Polishers, Buffers. Cincinnati. Ohio. 

Mrs. Frederick P. Bagley, Boston. Mass. 

C. L. Baine, secretary-treasurer. Boot and Shoe Workers" Union. Bost<in, ^lass. 

George F. Baker, vice president First National Bank, New York. 

Miss Gertrude Beeks. director welfare department, the National Civic Federa- 
tion, New York. 

A. F. Bemis, president National Association of Cotton Manufacturers, Boston, 
Mass. 

A. J. Berres, secretary-treasurer metal trades department. American Federation 
of Labor, Washington, D. C. 

W. T. Barbour, president Detroit Stove Works. Detroit. Mich. 

H. de Bardeleben, president Alabama Coal & Iron Co.. Birmingham, Ala. 

A. E. Barker, president International Brotherhood of Maintenance of Way Em- 
ployees, Detroit, Mich. 

Miss Gertrude Barnum, .iournalist, Riverside, 111. 

Robert P. Bass, former governor of New Hampshire, New York. 

Cornelius N. Bliss, .jr.. New Y(n-k. 

Dick Q. Brown. Tide Water Oil Co.. New York. 

William Bowen. president Bricklayers. Masons, and Plasterers' International 
Union, Indianapolis. lud. 

Peter J. Brady, president Allied Printing Trades' Council. New York State. 
New York. 

W. E. Bryan, general president United Brotherhood of Leather \\ orkers on 
Hor.se Goods. Kansas City, Mo. 

Robert F. Brindell, Dock Builders' Local Union, New York. 

Lewis T. Bryant, State commissioner of labor, Trenton, N. J. 

Allin T. Burns, Cleveland Foundation, Cleveland, Ohio. • 

A Caminetti, Bureau of Immigration, Department of Labor. Washington, D. C. 

W. M. Clark, vice president Order of Railway Conductors of America. Wash- 
ington. D. C. ,,, , . T- ■ mil 

William P. Clarke, president American Flint Glass ^^ orkers I nion, loledo, 

Mrs Sara A Conbov. secretary-treasurer United Textile Workers, New York. 

D Cohen, International Ladies' Garment Workers' Union, of Baltnnore. 

L A Coolidge, treasurer United Shoe Machinery Co.. Boston, Mass. 

J P Coughlin, New York State Machinists' Conference. New lork. 

Miss Mary Conroy, member Binders Women's Union (local). Baltnnore. Md. 

H. L. Crawford, New York. 



As indicated by acceptances of invitations and registration during the meeting:. 
S. Doc. S4. fi5-1 7 '^' 



98 BRITISH labor's WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN LABOR. 

P. A. Crowley, vice president New York Central Lines, New York. 

John F. Curley, president American Wire Weavers' Association, Holyoke Mass 

Thomas J. Curtis, president Tunnel and Subway Constructors' Union of' Nortli 
America, New York. 

D. D'Allessandro. president International Hod Carriers, Buildlne;, and Common 
Laborers' LTuion of America. Albany. N. Y^. 

H. P. Davidson, J. P. Morgan & Co., New York. 

Frank Dehut, London Daily Chronicle, New York. 

William Diamond, organizer L'nited States Mine Workers of America Cum- 
berland, Md. 

Wlliam N. Doak, Brotherhood Railway Trainmen (legislative committee) 
Washington, D. C. 

Dr. Alvah H. Doty, medical director Western Union Telegraph Co., New York. 

Marcus A. Dow. general safety agent New York Central Lines. New Y^ork. 

Frank Duffy, .secretary United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of 
America, Indianapolis, Ind. 

James Duncan, president International Granite Cutters' Association, Quincv 
Mass. 

Ralph M. Easley. chairman executive council, the National Civic Federation, 
New Y^ork. 

J. M. Eaton, welfare department, Cadillac Motor Car Co.. Detroit, Mich. 

W. A. Evans, president American Public Health Association, Chicago, 111. 

Prank Feeney, president International Union of Elevator Constructors, Phila- 
delphia, Pa. 

John H. Ferguson, president Maryland State and District of Columl)ia Federa- 
tion of Labor, Baltimore, Md. 

William K. Field, president Pittsburgh Coal Co., Pittsburgh, Pa. 

John A. Fitch, the Survey, New York. 

T. F. Flaherty, secretary-treasurer National Federation of Postal Employees, 
Washington, D. C. 

Edward Flore, president Hotel and Restaurant Emplovees' International and 
Bartenders' Alliance, Buffalo, N. Y. 

John Flynn, organizer of Carpenters. Indianapolis, Ind. 

Lee K. Frankel, third vice president Metropolitan Life Insurance Co.. New 
York, 

Charles Francis, Charles Francis Press. New York. 

Hugh Frayne, organizer, American Federation of Labor, New York, 

James J, Freel, president International Stereotypers and Electrotypers" Union, 
Brooklyn, N. Y. 

John Golden, president United Textile Workers of America, New York. 

Dr. William C. Gorgas. Surgeon General, War Department, Washington, D, C. 

Miss Pauline Goldmark. research st'Cretarv National Consumers' League, New 
York, 

Abraham Greenstein, secretarv-treasurer International Jewelrv Workers, New 
York, 

I>aniel Guggenheim, president American Smelting & Refining Co., New York. 

G. H. Halberstadt, surgeon in chief Philadelphia & Reading Coal & Iron Co,, 
Pottsville, Pa. 

Mrs. Borden Harriman, former member L^nited States Industrial Relations 
Commission, Washington, D. C. 

Edward Hamlin, president Metropolitan Coal Co., Boston, Mass. 

A. M, Harvey, American Public Health, Chicago, 111. 

S. E. Heberling. president Switchmen's Union of North America. Buffalo, N. Y. 

Myron T, Herrick, former United States Ambassador to France, Cleveland, Ohio. 

F, Hewitt, editor International Association of Machinists' Journal, Wash- 
ington, D, C. 

F, L. Hoffman, statistician, Prudential Insurance Co. of America, Newark, N. J. 

Stephen C. Hogan, president International Association of Marble, Slate, and 
Stone Polishers, Rubbers, and Sawyers, New Yoi'k, 

Hale Holden, president Chicago, Burlington & Quincy Railroad Co., Wa.sli- 
iugton. D. C. 

Arthur E. Holder, legislative committee, American Federation of Labor (Inter- 
national Association of Machinists), Washington, D. C. 

William G, Holder, president International Steel and Copper Plate Printers,- 
New York. 

Colgate Hovt, Colgate Hoyt Co.. New York. 

R. S. Hudspeth, Hudspeth & Rysdyk, Jersey City, N. J. 

W. G, Hudson, E. I. du Pont de Nemours & Co., Wilmington, Del. 



BRITISH LABOR'S WAR MESSAGE: TO AMERICIN LABOR. 99 

Andrew C. Huahes. president Coopers' International I'uioii, Newton Hi-dilands 
Mass. 

A. L. Humphrey, vice president Westinghouse Air Bralce Co., Pittsburgh, Pa 
William L. Hutcheson, president United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners, 

Indianapolis, Ind. 

John J. Hi'iiesj. president Amalgamated Sheet Metal Workers, Kansas Citv, Mo. 

Andrew C" Imbrie, treasurer United States Finishing Co., New York. 

Harry Jenkins, secretary Glass Bottle Blowers" Association, Philadelphia. Pa. 

Dr. J. \V. Jenks, director of division of public affairs. New York University, 
New York. 

Harry Pratt Judson, president University of Chicago, Chicago, 111. 

U. W. Kearney, disbursing office. Agriculture Department, Washington, D. C. 

Dr. George M. Kober. Georgetown University, Washington, D. C. 

Walter E. Kruesi, Qmirtermaster General's Office, War Department. Wash- 
ington, D. C. , 

S. J. Konenkamp, president Commercial Telegraphers' Union of Nortli America, 
Chicago, 111. 

Frank Kolootziejski, Detroit, Mich. 

B. A. Larger, Garment Workers of America. 

Miss Julia Lathrop, Chief Children's Bureau, Department of Labor, Washing- 
ton, D. C. 

J. H. Lorcli, Local Steam Engineers' Union, Washington, D. C. 

Thomas F. Logan, AVashington Post, Washington, D. C. 

James Lord, president mining department of American Federation of Labor 
(United Mine Workers), Washington, D. C. 

CoUis Lovely, vice president Boot and Shoe Workers' Union, St, Louis, INIo. 

J. A. McClelland. International Association of Machinists, Washington. D. C, 

Vance C. IMcCormick, chairman Democratic national committee, Harrisburg, Pa. 

AVm. J. McGeory. business agent of Yonkers (N. Y.) Building Trades. 

T. A. McGinley. vice president Duff Manufacturing Co., Pittsburgh, Pa. 

Miss Gertrude McNallv. secretarv Federal Labor Union. 12776, Washington, 
D. C. 

Emerson McMillin, president American Light & Traction Co,, New York. 

P. J. McNamara, member legislative committee, representing Railroad Brother- 
hoods, Washington, D. C. 

Wm. J. McSorley, president Lathers' International Union, X^leveland, Ohio. 

H. B. F. Macfarland, Red Cross Society, Washington, D. C. 

V. Everit Macy, president the National Civic Federation, New York. 

ilrs. V. p]verit INlncy, New Y^ork, 

Eliz. Maloney. Hotel & Restaurant Employees' International Alliance, Chi- 
cago, 111. 

A'an. H. Manning. Director Bureau of Mines. Washington, D. C. 

L. B. Marks, consulting engineer, New Y'^ork. 

Theodore Marburg, political economist, Baltimore, Md. 

Louie P. Marquardt, president Georgia Federation of Labor, Atlanta, Ga. 

Royal D, Meeker, commissioner of statistics. Department of Labor, Washing- 
ton, D. C. 

Dr. Theodore C. IMerrill. Bureau of Chemistry. Washington, D. C, 

Charles Merz, The New Republic, W^ashington, D. C. 

George IMesta, president Mesta Machine Co.. Pittsburgh, Pa, 

C. Edwin Micliael. president Mrginia Bridge & Iron Co., Roanoke. Va. 

H. E. Miles, chairman industrial training committee. National Association of 
Manufacturers, Racine, Wis. 

Tom Moore. United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America, Canada. 

Frank IMorrison. secretary American Federation of Labor (International Typo- 
irraphical Union), Washington. D. C. 

P. F. Murphy, president Bill Posters and Billers' International Alliance. Chi- 
cago, 111. 

J. M. Neenan. president National Window Glass Workers, Cleveland, Ohio. 

Miss Marie L. Obenauer, executive secretary of bureau of registration and 
information. National League for Women's Service. Washington. D. C. 

Rev. John O'Grady, Catholic University of America, Washington, D. C. 

James O'Connell, president metal trades department American Federation of 
Labor (International Association of Machinists), Washington, D. C. 

Lew R. Palmer, president National Safety Council, Harrislnu'g, Pa. 

James Parmelee. Washington. D. C. 

Prof. Jessica B. Peixotto. University of California. Berkeley, Ci-. 

M. M. Podolsky, mechanical engineer. Philadelphia. Pa. 



100 BRITISH LABOR "S WAR MESSAGE TO AMERICAN" LABOK. 

John H. Patterson, president National Cash Register Co., Davton, Ohio. 

G. W. Perkins, president Cigarmakers' International Union, Chicago, 111. 

Geo. M. Price, director joint board of sanitary control. New York. 

John F. Pierce, Baltimore Federation of Labor, Baltitnace,. Md. f 

F. L. Purtill, vice chairman Illinois State legislative lKWil|^olkKi-(.fl)ei-]ioo(l of 
Locomotive Firemen aiid Enginemen. Duqnoin, 111. '^♦#^ V 

Blanchard Randall, president Chamber of Commerce, Baltimore. MtL ^ l 

Edith S. Reider, welfare secretary International Harvester Co., Chicago Til 

R. C. Richards, chairman Chicago & North Western Railway, Chicago ' 111 

Thomas A. Rickert, president United Garment Workers of America, New York 

E. E. Rittenhouse, Equitable Life Assurance Society of the United States, New 
York. 

Senator G. D. Robertson, Ottawa, Canada. 

Thomas Robins, secretary United States Naval Consulting Board, New York. 

Jolin D. Rockefeller, jr., New York. 

Dr. J. W. Schereschewsky, Public Health Service, Treasurv Department. Pitts- 
burgh, Pa. 

Louis B. Schram, chairman labor committee United States Bi=ewers' Association, 
Brooklyn, N. Y. 

Miss Melinda Scott, vice president Women's Trade Union League, New York. 

John W. Sculley, president United Hatters of North America, New York. 

Dr. Albert Shaw, editor Review of Reviews, New York. 

T. J. Savage, machinists' union, Everett, Mass. 

Mary P. Scully, general organizer American Federation of Labor, Troy, N. Y. 

C. C. Shay, president International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees,. 
New York. 

E. M. Silsbee, secretary American Iron and Steel Institute, New Y'ork. 

William J. Spencer, secretary building trades department American Federation 

of Labor (United Association of Plumbers and Steam Fitters), Washington, 

D. C. 
Charles B. Stillman, president American Federation of Teachers, Wilmette. 111.. 
N. I. Stone, statistician, Washington, D. C. 
Percy S. Straus, R. H. Macy & Co., New York. 

Thomas Sweeney, secretary Journeymen Tailors' Union of America, Chicago, Uh 
Andrew Ten Eyck, Albany, N. Y. 

George Thornton, Mule Spinners' Union, Central Falls, R. I. 
Dr. W. Oilman Thompson, New York. 

Lydia J. Trowbridge, High School Teachers' Federation, Chicago, 111. 
Col. Isaac M. Ullman, president chamber of commerce. New Haven, Conn. 
G. C. Van Domes, vice president International Brotherhood of Blacksmiths. 

and Helpers, Chicago, 111. 
John A. Voll, president Glass Bottle BloAvers" Association, Philadephia, Pa. 

D. Everet Waide, treasurer American Institute of Architects, Washington. D. Cv 
Miss Lillian D. Wald, head worker Henry Street Settlement, New York. 

Dr. Frank J. Warne, economist, Washington, D. C. 

Dr. J. M. Wainwright, chief surgeon Delaware, Lackawanna & Western Rail- 
road Co., Scranton, Pa. 

A. O. Wharton, president railway employees department American Federation 
of Labor (International Association of Machinists), St. Louis, Mo. 

Arthur Williams, New York Edison Co., New York. 

Dr. Gustavus Werber, American Association for Vital Conservation. Washing- 
ton, D. C. 

Charles B. Warren, Detroit. Mich. 

Miss Emilia Weiss, International Cigar Makers' Union, Detroit, Mich. 

Dr. Talcott Williams, Columbia University, New York. 

Charles H. Winslow, vocational educational advisor, Newark, N. J. 

H. E. Wills, assistant grand chief Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers. Wash- 
ington, D. C. 

Rabbi Stephen S. Wise, Free Synagogue, New York. 

Clinton Rogers Woodruff, secretary National Municipal League, Philadel- 
phia, Pa. 

W. G. Woodward, American Public Health, Washington, D. C. 

A. H. Young, director American Museum of Safety, New York. 

Max Zuckerman, secretary LTnited Cloth Hat and Cap Makers of North America. 
New York. 

o 



